Ableton Forum

and I am IN LUST with the new Mackie HR 824 MK2's. Always had a hard on for the 824's and I am (hoping) that mackie improved on the series with the new mk2's.

However, I don't want to leap too soon. I want to know my options. Of course, since I mostly work with drum and bass, low end extension is VERY VERY VERY important for me. Still, I dont just want some monitors with big bass. I'm also going to be working on other side projects soon, spanning across several genres, and eventually doing some film/TV/videogame scoring and sound design, so I want a GREAT all around system (as natural and unbiased as possible) that will help me do jobs that will translate well to a variety of other systems.

Please spare me the "just trust your ears" / "it's not the equipment, it's the producer" evangelism. This is not what this thread is about. I just want some opinions on a few of the more highly regarded monitor systems, based on your firsthand experience.

Like I said, the 824 mk2's are the ones that have caught the most of my attention. I'm also considering the following:

KRK VXT 8
Dynaudio BM5a
Adam A7

I've heard lots of great things about the BM5a's but I've also read that their bass extension is not the best. However, I guess it's a subjective thing. So I still might be open to them.

Anyhoo... tell me about your experiences!

i would also check out the event asp8

adam

big dynaudio fan here, even though i'll probably never afford them. they sound like cream though.

I *LOVE* my BM5A's, and will likely be taking them to my grave. Unless I ever graduate up to a much bigger space, they'll be all I need.

Bass response is a very subjective thing, and highly dependent on your room/environment. I might entertain the thought of adding their small sub-woofer down the road just make sure all lows are covered, however I would only do so after being sure that my room is "true". This would likely require some Auralex and bass traps etc...

But again, this is the important issue, before speaker size or frequency ratings of the monitors themselves.

crap! double post, sorry

jamester wrote:Bass response is a very subjective thing

Agreed 100%

I gotta clarify though, just in case. When I say that bass response is very important, I dont mean I am looking for the biggest, floor shaking woofers out there. I dont want monitors that will color or "sweeten up" my music to make it sound "better", because in the end it probably wont translate well to other systems.

I just want something very well balanced. Just appropriate bass response. I've been using smaller cone monitors for some time now and I've felt that my mixes suffer a lot from this setup. They usually end up sounding overly boomy/muddy because I end up overcompensating (not an intentional thing. It just keeps happening) for frequencies I can't hear, and more importantly, CANT FEEL. I know bigger monitors won't magically fix my mixes, but the improved bass response should help me detect any problem areas that the limited range of the smaller monitors didnt.

jamester wrote:however I would only do so after being sure that my room is "true". This would likely require some Auralex and bass traps etc...

But again, this is the important issue, before speaker size or frequency ratings of the monitors themselves.

I agree with you on this as well.

However I'm moving soon, and it's a month to month deal depending on how well I get along with the roommate, so who knows if I even end up moving AGAIN after a short period of time. So doing the whole room treatment thing would be kind of a lost cause atm. Maybe the monitor thing is a lost cause, based on my situation as well?

But then again maybe not.

I'm just really tired of settling for "budget" monitors. Now that I can afford some higher end ones I want to jump at the opportunity and invest in a great pair, regardless of environment. Not sure if it's a good idea. But I can't help it. I need me some new high end monitors. Call it a bad case of gear lust if you will

Odd double post there Aqua!

However I'm moving soon, and it's a month to month deal depending on how well I get along with the roommate, so who knows if I even end up moving AGAIN after a short period of time. So doing the whole room treatment thing would be kind of a lost cause atm. Maybe the monitor thing is a lost cause, based on my situation as well?

But then again maybe not.

I'm just really tired of settling for "budget" monitors. Now that I can afford some higher end ones I want to jump at the opportunity and invest in a great pair, regardless of environment. Not sure if it's a good idea. But I can't help it. I need me some new high end monitors.

You are absolutely doing the right thing in getting the best monitors you can muster, regardless of room/monitoring conditions! It's not about gear lust, it's about necessity (try that line on the significant other if you have to, lol).

I'm pretty much in the same position; my room right now is useable, but far from ideal. Treating it properly is on the to-do list, but until then - and either way - you still want the best speakers possible. It still makes a difference...kinda like the reasoning for recording at 24bit and dithering to 16, you want the best quality where it counts, even if it's going to get worsened downstream. So yeah man, go for it!

As for sub-woofers, they needn't have anything to do with bowel-shaking bass thump! Simply, they can produce lower frequencies than five- and six- inch monitor speakers can, so using them in conjunction equals to full-range reproduction, regardless of the musical styles being played through them. It's all about accuracy.

Are you going to be able to compare the Mackie's with the Dynaudio's, or is this a "pick one and go for it" situation? You really can't lose either way. The Mackie's have really come down in price recently, they're a great deal. Not sure about the BM5A's, as they've been one-upped recently by the 6A's, though the 5's are still in production...

ah the monitor thing........

well, I did the "pepsi challenge" with these....albeit with just cd's.....(steely dan aja, coltrain love supreme, army of anyone, jeff beck wired, maroon 5 songs about jane)

mackie 824's
yamaha m80's
dynaudio bm5's
krk v6's and v8's
alesis m1's
jbl 4328's

I'm not going to "bash" any of the ones I didn't like.....but I'll tell you this......the ones we came back to over and over were the yamaha m80's.

Second would be the dynaudio bm5's, but I noticed a PERPETUAL 200hz-ish bump that was unpleasant when listening too long.

Here's what my results were based on...er, if I can remember exactly....

The standout listenings that gave me the "truth" in my opinion were...

a. jeffbeck/goodbye pork pie hat. I listen for the rhodes in the begining first. It's there but not overwhelming and very "vintage" in tone. The drums are next.....should be clear and present and the old-school verb should be beautiful.....not lame! The bass should sound round and clear.....and then of course there is beck. Two parts come to mind for "gotcha" clarity. There is a part where he bends and the overtones ring AS WELL as the "noise" you hear in the background. That should be very present.....it part of the song so to speak Then towards the end he ducks back to the coda (I think?) and there is very pronounced sustain, with the next note being quite a bit softer. The point is you SHOULD feel the difference in emotion.

b. Maroon 5/various songs. I love using this one since it's "pop" but very well recorded/mastered. Vocals are the number one thing to focus on here. That guy has a very nice voice so I'm listening to influctions and such. Second for listen on that cd is drums. There are allot of great parts to listen to subtle changes like hats/rides and the "crispness" of the snare.....and of course the other thing is drums/bass are TIGHT on that record....so it's nice to check clarity between the two.

c. Steel dan/aja/various songs. What can you say about this listening? It's easily in the top 10 best mixed/produced/song quality cd's ever! Black cow is a great one to judge on because the clave/bass and drums are so seventies......you should be able to hear the every single part without straining. The guitars should "ring" but not overwhelm. The piano into in aja should be warm and rich and that guitar should be there with ALLOT of space in between. It's definatly one of the best to work out phones or monitors.

d. Coltrain/love supreme/various. I don't know how many jazz fans there are out there, but in my opionion, the sax can RIP YOUR HEAD OFF when listening to this one. For this listen, that was always the main focus.......does it kill me? Or does it feel decent in context. Also, in most cases I can't hear the upright too well, so I use that as a bench mark too. Check the "in's and out's" on this one to hear if it's too abrasive or not.

e. Army of anyone. This is another one of those rock cd's that if you were to drag into ableton, you'd mostly just see BLACK! Know what I mean? The tracks are so limited/compressed/maximized that there are little dynamics. GOOD! You should have something like this as a reference. Listen to parts that have drum changes (again, hats to rides, etc) and bass.......ugggg.......it's so hard to "hear" the bass on some of these recordings. Anyways, always good to use one of these as reference cause they are extream.

Ok, so why did I/we like the yamahas? Well for one thing, I never got sick of them. Some of the other monitors would be nice for a while, but you'd start squinting and so on, even at low volumes. The krk v6's were really guilty of this. It was like they'd tease me. They would sound very nice and "accurate" but they'd start to wear on me after a couple of minutes. Like I was paying TOO much attention....ok, very hard to discribe. I also liked that they had a bit extra bottom. Sorry, I don't "do" subwoofers......so why not? I'm not talking about BOOMY bottom......just more low end air.....which makes sense considering the size (kinda big imho)

One more thing about the yamahas......I don't know about you......but I want something that always sounds good. I mean if you do the tests and so on, shouldn't you want something that feels good too? I never ever ever ever EVER got tired of listening to them. I was there about 3 hours.....others came and went but the results were the same. They always sounded good no matter what. Again, the fatigue thing is subjective, but they were the only ones that felt like "home".....

Ok, I'm tired of typing!

aqua,

if you can wait just a couple of weeks.. a good friend of mine is manufacturing what i promise you will be the best monitors you hear in that price range (forget genelecs and other toys) and ill be happy to drop you a line about them.

pm me if you're interested.

Adam or Genelec, Mackies are horrible, I get headache if exposed to them more then few minutes, otherwise useless anyway, you could use Ipod speakers as well.

genelec fan here, dynaudios second, adam third.
all somehow subjective.
try to compare, and treat your room !!!

i personally would never waste my money on mackie monitors, they just don't cut it compared to the mentioned brands IMHO.

I've been a big fan of those mackies for a long time...the only thing that's kept me from buying them is the fact that I don't have a properly treated room to reap the benefits of those magnificent monitors. If you're ready to make that step, do yourself a big favor end buy some acoustic treatment for the room where they will live and make sure you're really hearing them in a controlled environment. Bass traps, sound diffusers, floor padding, and if possible, non-parallel walls.

Wow thanks guys. Lots of useful info here.

(sorry about that double post. )

eyeknow, that was a very informative post

One more thing about the yamahas......I don't know about you......but I want something that always sounds good. I mean if you do the tests and so on, shouldn't you want something that feels good too? I never ever ever ever EVER got tired of listening to them. I was there about 3 hours.....others came and went but the results were the same. They always sounded good no matter what. Again, the fatigue thing is subjective, but they were the only ones that felt like "home".....

well... i want monitors that sound good, but not necessarily TOO good. I dont want to be tricked into thinking that my mixes are better than they actually are, you know? I want the monitors to be as accurate as possible. But yeah fatigue is a big thing as well. As long as it's a good balance between accuracy and low fatigue it's a winner for me

nebulae wrote: If you're ready to make that step, do yourself a big favor end buy some acoustic treatment for the room where they will live and make sure you're really hearing them in a controlled environment. Bass traps, sound diffusers, floor padding, and if possible, non-parallel walls.

I get that, but like I said, I'm moving into a new place in a little less than a month, and it's more of a temp. thing depending on how well i get along with the housemate. So I might be moving yet again after a few months. Which means that room treatment at the moment won't be an option. Just want to get some good monitors as the first long term investment and then when I'm settled into a place that I know I wont be moving out of anytime soon, I'll treat the room accordingly.


@ sweetjesus, I'm keeping an open mind about when to buy. I could very well end up buying the new monitors tomorrow, or next week or in a couple weeks... depending on how bad my compulsion gets (yes, when I have the money available I've been known to not be the most patient person)

Anyways definitely drop me a PM and give me some more info if possible

aqua_tek wrote:Wow thanks guys. Lots of useful info here.

(sorry about that double post. )

eyeknow, that was a very informative post

One more thing about the yamahas......I don't know about you......but I want something that always sounds good. I mean if you do the tests and so on, shouldn't you want something that feels good too? I never ever ever ever EVER got tired of listening to them. I was there about 3 hours.....others came and went but the results were the same. They always sounded good no matter what. Again, the fatigue thing is subjective, but they were the only ones that felt like "home".....

well... i want monitors that sound good, but not necessarily TOO good. I dont want to be tricked into thinking that my mixes are better than they actually are, you know? I want the monitors to be as accurate as possible. But yeah fatigue is a big thing as well. As long as it's a good balance between accuracy and low fatigue it's a winner for me

nebulae wrote: If you're ready to make that step, do yourself a big favor end buy some acoustic treatment for the room where they will live and make sure you're really hearing them in a controlled environment. Bass traps, sound diffusers, floor padding, and if possible, non-parallel walls.

I get that, but like I said, I'm moving into a new place in a little less than a month, and it's more of a temp. thing depending on how well i get along with the housemate. So I might be moving yet again after a few months. Which means that room treatment at the moment won't be an option. Just want to get some good monitors as the first long term investment and then when I'm settled into a place that I know I wont be moving out of anytime soon, I'll treat the room accordingly.


@ sweetjesus, I'm keeping an open mind about when to buy. I could very well end up buying the new monitors tomorrow, or next week or in a couple weeks... depending on how bad my compulsion gets (yes, when I have the money available I've been known to not be the most patient person)

Anyways definitely drop me a PM and give me some more info if possible

okay PM'ed you about his speakers (only coz i care about sound )