Ableton Forum

one of my closest friends, (we'll call him Walt) called me today and tells me he is being sued by Waves for $75k for using pirated copies of their SSL G-Master Buss Compressor plugin, and Diamond Bundle in his studio.

Back in March he was approached by a potential client who presented himself as a needing a studio who had these plugins to allow for compatibility in other studios. The "client" visited his studio where he chatted it up, and asked to see the plugins in action. My friend happily obliged and then 3 months later received a letter from Waves about the lawsuit.

This studio is based out of his home. He has a PC based studio set up in the living room... kind of a lounge, beat making studio. This is where all the alleged pirated stuff is... and this is where Walt showed him the Waves plugins he was asking about.

The second studio is the really nice facility which is all Intel Power Mac running Logic Pro. This studio has no Waves software on it. This is the studio that people come and pay to use mostly.

In the letter however it states that he had copies of both of these products in both of his studios (he doesn't). The letter included a phone number which he called and he spoke to some people who wanted to hear his side of the story. He told them he only had demo versions on his machines, and that if the client had actually booked the time and paid the deposit that he would have purchased the software. They told him that there was nothing more to say and they would see him in court.

I hate to see hardworking people get the shaft, and I am worried about my friend. This guy has 3 kids and 2 jobs, and now has to hire an attorney and deal with this bullshit.

Tell your friends to be cautious, and to use some discretion.

How long has he been running this "Demo" for?

KU wrote:

one of my closest friends, (we'll call him Walt) called me today and tells me he is being sued by Waves for $75k for using pirated copies of their SSL G-Master Buss Compressor plugin, and Diamond Bundle in his studio.

Back in March he was approached by a potential client who presented himself as a needing a studio who had these plugins to allow for compatibility in other studios. The "client" visited his studio where he chatted it up, and asked to see the plugins in action. My friend happily obliged and then 3 months later received a letter from Waves about the lawsuit.

This studio is based out of his home. He has a PC based studio set up in the living room... kind of a lounge, beat making studio. This is where all the alleged pirated stuff is... and this is where Walt showed him the Waves plugins he was asking about.

The second studio is the really nice facility which is all Intel Power Mac running Logic Pro. This studio has no Waves software on it. This is the studio that people come and pay to use mostly.

In the letter however it states that he had copies of both of these products in both of his studios (he doesn't). The letter included a phone number which he called and he spoke to some people who wanted to hear his side of the story. He told them he only had demo versions on his machines, and that if the client had actually booked the time and paid the deposit that he would have purchased the software. They told him that there was nothing more to say and they would see him in court.

I hate to see hardworking people get the shaft, and I am worried about my friend. This guy has 3 kids and 2 jobs, and now has to hire an attorney and deal with this bullshit.

Tell your friends to be cautious, and to use some discretion.

I actually got visited by a waves executive in my studio....he was a real nice guy actually (we talked a lot about music...)... offered me some deals on bundles... but he kept asking what I use for this and that.... we were using tc system6000 plugs back then so the guy kinda went blue ...
...later I heard of other studios who had been sued by waves...it makes sense for them to sue cuz MANY MANY of the studios want to use waves (but don't want to pay for using ...). ...I'm so glad I'm legit nowadays...
The man can't put no thing on me....

BUT THEY'RE RIGHT!!! Your friend was using pirated software to make a profit!!! ...so he was kinda asking for it... doesn't matter if he has 3 grandsons and 2 on the way...he was ripping them off!!!
I guess They would settle with him if he buys the software....(Which he should)...
It takes a lot of guts for a software developer to come knocking on doors...
some Software developers I know would like to knock on some doors and get squared with the people who are doing these things....

If he's legally in demo mode only, he's got nothing to worry about.

Otherwise, I have no sympathy whatsoever for those who use pirated software, be it for profit or not.

Ya pays your money (or not!), ya takes your chances...

i can see them suing for the cost of the product but $75,00?
damn mentals

a. This is an "riaa" or simular situation.......these guys live to make others miserable. And before someone get's any ideas toward me.....I DO NOT AND WILL NOT PIRATE SOFTWARE. Just saying they are too hard on some and not enough on others....fatal human flaw

b. I am a bit confused in that IF he was just covering bases for that client.....then what's the fuss? Did I not understand and he actually used/continued to use the product past demo time? If that happened, clearly, this is not a good thing.

c. Back to bashing waves......seems like a set-up to me.....if I understand correctly. Like a speed trap or something......which also seems like what the jist of the real warning is about. ENTRAPMENT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE......er, unless there is a history.

I agree that piracy hurts developers, but read up on the WUP (waves update plan) and I have no sympathy for waves. They treat the people who actually buy the stuff like garbage.

I would honestly be happy to see waves file for bankruptcy.

Do yourself a favor, NEVER support this company! Trust me.

eyeknow wrote: c. Back to bashing waves......seems like a set-up to me.....if I understand correctly. Like a speed trap or something......which also seems like what the jist of the real warning is about. ENTRAPMENT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE......er, unless there is a history.

Entrapment would be if the "client" somehow suggested that the studio should get a pirated copy of waves on their machines for his project, thus prompting him to do something illegal that he wouldn't normally do under the circumstances. Using an undercover agent to gather information on a target (who apparently already had pirated software installed) isn't the same.


I feel for your friend, but at the same time, I have to side with the lawyers on this one (eek!). All opinions about Waves aside, he shouldn't be using their gear in a pro studio to make money. That's simply unprofessional.

I have some sympathy for the guy just as I do for anyone who gets caught up. I've been there and it sucks.

But if you're gonna do the crime, you gotta be willing to do the time. It's a cliche, but it's true. He's stealing. Plain and simple. You can argue till your blue in the face that the people he is stealing from are not good people, but that is pretty irrelevant.

Like someone else said, I'm sure there are a ton of developers who would love to be able to go out and hunt down the people stealing their products, but they don't have the resources. Waves does, and in some way their efforts can have a trickle down effect.

dont they somehow have to prove u commited a crime?

sweetjesus wrote:dont they somehow have to prove u commited a crime?

They would have to prove that he is ripping them off, yes. Who knows what evidence they do or don't have? But I'm sure they are just trying to scare people more than anything.

detroitechno wrote:I agree that piracy hurts developers, but read up on the WUP (waves update plan) and I have no sympathy for waves. They treat the people who actually buy the stuff like garbage.

I would honestly be happy to see waves file for bankruptcy.

Do yourself a favor, NEVER support this company! Trust me.

and to add......I've never been able to even try the products......all that ilok ON TOP of ilok "extra" shit......the demos NEVER WORK!

See, to me, ilok is supposed to be the "end all" piracy thing.....but with all the extra wup and ilok extra client stuff.......I just don't get it.

sweetjesus wrote:dont they somehow have to prove u commited a crime?

I'm jaded enough to say no. Guilty until proven innocent......I've had cops tell me that!

detroitechno wrote:I agree that piracy hurts developers, but read up on the WUP (waves update plan) and I have no sympathy for waves. They treat the people who actually buy the stuff like garbage.

I would honestly be happy to see waves file for bankruptcy.

Do yourself a favor, NEVER support this company! Trust me.

...Sorry +1 satisfied customer here...

sweetjesus wrote:dont they somehow have to prove u commited a crime?

That's what courts are for...
But I've heard they take pictures and have recordings of conversations... so...
if they're suing they probably have proof...