Live + extras. Value for money?

condra · Post by **condra** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:51 pm

Logic Studio was released recently, and for only $500 comes with:
Logic Pro 8. A fantastic DAW/sequencer
Soundtrack Pro, prety nifty audio editor
18,000 apple loops, 1300 sampled instruments, hundreds of drum kits.
Massive bundle of instruments and effects including some fantastic synths, a sampler, drum machine, guitar amp simulation, convolution reverb etc etc etc

In light of this, what should Abletons next move be?

What would suit you most?

What is feasable for Ableton?

condra · Post by **condra** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:55 pm

Dr Dub, elsewhere, wrote

ableton live plus operator + sampler...then Guitar rig...then some nice mixing plugs like wavearts or similar....then another synth...and so on and so on..perhaps a reverb?

Selling my pc and my software and buying a mac and logic just could stop this.

For just over a grand, one could buy a Mac mini with 2 gigs of ram and Logic Studio. This is a serious "one stop shop".

I really hope Ableton step up to the challenge.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:17 pm

Don't forget Waveburner.

steff3 · Post by **steff3** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:37 am

I do not think it makes sense to compete against the DAWs in their traditional field. Apple has video and audio development and the hardware underneath. Digi/Avid has video and audio development ......

they need to offer something different - an extension to the traditional DAWs ...

best

ilia · Post by **ilia** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:04 am

When I'm working with Live and reaching out for something that's not there (kinda like trying to scratch an itch in a missing limb), it's not Operator or some loop I'm looking for. It's corssfades (and fades), multiple take comping, track folders, time signature changes, proper solo-safe groups, arrangement sections, etc. etc. We are on version 6 now, and a lot of apps calling themselves "DAW" had those in version 1. Enough said.

condra · Post by **condra** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:36 am

Good points. I feel pretty much the same way.

friend_kami · Post by **friend_kami** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:22 pm

funny its 30% focus more on live perfomance, and 30% focus more on live as a DAW.

imo, perforrmance should comes first, after all it is namde ableton LIVE.
they should release a separate version called ableton studio heh.

andydes · Post by **andydes** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:06 pm

I'd say both DAW and Live performance really. I voted for DAW because they're features mostly associated with standard DAWs, but I think many of them would also be a great improvement for the live performance aspect. For example:

Group tracks, both to simplify layout in session and arrangment views, and to be able to launch, stop, solo and mute clips together as a group. An additional clip for automation of the group properties wouldn't go amiss either.

Some of the ideas we've been discussing on the Angstroms "non-linear arrangement" thread. ie. better links between the two pages and more flexible arrangements.

Improvements to Midi, Audio and envelope editing.

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:21 pm

Anybody remember the good old "Live Sequencing Instrument"?
Thats why I bought Live in the first place. If I want more traditional daw stuff, I can just go get logic right?
Yeah, but thats not what I want. No point in making Ableton Studio if you can just go get Logic Studio..

Anything that'll require a progress bar is unacceptable. That pretty much leaves out offline processing

Its called "Ableton Live" not "Ableton Buffering... please wait".
Non-linear arranging without the need for a mouse/keyboard.. Now we're talking

condra · Post by **condra** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:26 pm

If I want more traditional daw stuff, I can just go get logic right?
Yeah, but thats not what I want. No point in making Ableton Studio if you can just go get Logic Studio

No offence but I disagree somewhat.

Ableton are in the business of selling software, and if people "just go get Logic Studio" for production work, Ableton are missing out on potential money.

Yes, Live is a performance orientated bit of kit, but it is also an inspirational song writing and recording tool.

I use Live for both recording and DJ'ing. If Ableton were to neglect the production side of things, I would be very disappointed, and Logic would become even more tempting. I'm sure there are plenty others in a similar position.

I think it's a balancing act for Ableton. They'll never please everyone, but producers are just as much a vital part of their clientbase as performers.

Personally, I dont understand why people (not you hoff, people in general) think Live has to be one thing or another. It is already a swiss army knife of audio, and that is how I would like it to continue, and improve on.

I dont want to use Logic, but I wont keep investing in Live unless it continues to offer more, and better.

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:38 pm

No one Live user will every totally agree with the other. Thats the thing about Live. We all use it in our own way.

If Ableton were to neglect the production side of things, I would be very disappointed, and Logic would become even more tempting. I'm sure there are plenty others in a similar position.

Ableton looks like they're neglecting the Live side of things. I'm a bit dissapointed. And logic doesn't tempt me at all. I'm sure there are plenty others in others in a similar position.

A swiss army knife of audio? You mean "jack of all trades, master of none"?
I'd like to see you cut up a steak with a swiss army knife...
I want Ableton to play to the strenghts of what makes Live, Live. Instead of making Live into a 3rd rate version of cubase/logic.
But maybe thats just me...

tadx · Post by **tadx** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:29 pm

C'mon guys, live is so close to being a proper Daw. I really wouldn't mind a few steps forward.
I don't believe it will loose some of it's "live instrument" character after few improvements that would make it slightly more flexible and capable, as regular Daw's are.
I compose, mix in Live and use it for live performance and DJ-ing.
It's very nice feeling to stick with one piece of software and use it for such a different purposes IMO.

Josh Von · Post by **Josh Von** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:39 am

ilia wrote:When I'm working with Live and reaching out for something that's not there (kinda like trying to scratch an itch in a missing limb), it's not Operator or some loop I'm looking for. It's corssfades (and fades), multiple take comping, track folders, time signature changes, proper solo-safe groups, arrangement sections, etc. etc. We are on version 6 now, and a lot of apps calling themselves "DAW" had those in version 1. Enough said.

I agree

.

condra · Post by **condra** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:04 pm

+1

And a lot of these much requested DAW features would hardly effect the performance side of things, if anything they could improve it.

Personally, Id like more and better DAW features, improved (more modular) Operator, and much much more downloadable content.

EIC should be free.

netchaiev · Post by **netchaiev** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:05 pm

+1 HOFFMAN!!!!!!!
Not a perfect world. I like doing "studio" thing in Live also. But I want it to be as live oriented as possible.
Bundle the instruments would be cool. Improving the video thing a bit, too. But no, not another DAW, there's Logic Studio now. i like the MAx spirit not Cubase...
No one will ever be totally satisfied. That's cool.
If you guys like Logic, get it.
I hate this race/competition to more stuff.
I want a machine, a software -or anything- to work good before a new version comes.
I like improvements over changes in this area. I don't want Live 7. no thanks.
On a side note, all my friends are NOW asking me for Live workshop. I do what I can but noticed that they all love the simplicity of it, the drag-and-drop aspect, real-time and all, the impro style and yet w/ real arrangement. For a studio thing again there's Logic!
my 0.2e

Live + extras. Value for money?

How can Ableton make Live better value for money?

Live + extras. Value for money?