Ableton Forum

I was talking with a friend last night about touchscreen technology and neither of us could figure out why people are dishing out huge amounts of cash for the Lemur. We both agreed that the concept is very cool and that is perhaps the single thing that compels people to spend so much.

But doesn't it seem that your Lemur will be practically extinct in maybe as little as 18 months? With companies like Apple now mass producing touchscreen technology, I think it's safe to assume that Korg or M-Audio will soon be able to release similar devices at a fraction of the price that boutique companies like Jazzmutant offer it at.

Don't get me wrong - I think JM is a very cool and pioneering company. And I appreciate the high cost that they must sell their product at. But will they really be able to keep up with the bigger companies who can do mass production for much cheaper?

I just think it's not the wisest time to invest in a Lemur controller, and I cannot understand why people cannot reflect on this before spending so much money.

I cannot see apple or any of the "big" companies do what the Lemur does. It's not just triggering or fader controls. If your programming chops are there... it's an insane instrument. Apple probably will come up with something soon... but I bet it wont be able to do most of the things I've built on the Lemur. If all you want is control over the parameters you see on your screen then yes... the Lemur is a waste of money.

I think you buy it cause you need it now and can't wait 1 months. If you need flexibility and portability then it's the way forward.

i did recently consider it but my budget is limited and I decided that I needed to upgrade my aging G4 powerbook to a MBP first. Also with my gigging diminishing and my studio life blooming I would probably buy a mackie control & a 2nd synth instead if & when I have the cash available again.

I agree with corneliusw if your programming is up to it then you are on a winner and I suspect that the 'big' companies will only deliver the touch product that they want you to have.

Beatport wrote:I think it's safe to assume that Korg or M-Audio will soon be able to release similar devices at a fraction of the price that boutique companies like Jazzmutant offer it at.

Frankly, I can't see Korg/M-Audio releasing a fully-programmable OSC-based device...maybe it'll be a USB/MIDI device with an editor (where you arrange faders and knobs) which wouldn't be really programmable like the Lemur or, more likely, they'll go the Dexter route and just make something with pre-made interfaces that simulate MCU/whatever...

As for mass-produced touch screens...just imagine using fingers to trigger clips in Ableton on a 800x600 12-inch screen (you'd have to sacrifice number of clips for precision)....it's much easier when you have a completely modular/definable interface to "touch"...

And if only Ableton would implement OSC

How is the latency on the Lemur ?

This guys thread thinks it aint so good.

http://forum.jazzmutant.com/viewtopic.php?t=928

For most projects it is fine.. as in not noticeable at all. In large project you can slightly feel it but it is not distracting at all. I havent tried measuring it but i'd say it is still feels less than the latency I get when I use most software instruments. When I'm using OSC i don't notice any latency.

corneliusw wrote:For most projects it is fine.. as in not noticeable at all. In large project you can slightly feel it but it is not distracting at all. I havent tried measuring it but i'd say it is still feels less than the latency I get when I use most software instruments. When I'm using OSC i don't notice any latency.

Thanks for the response

Whats a "large project" ?

I don't know how else to describe it... but a project with heaps of objects (with a screen filled with many separate buttons etc) on over 3- 4 screens. If this does become a problem.. then you can simply save each screen as a separate project and since v1.6 they can be saved inside the Lemur and theyre very quickly accessible.

Sweet,

Thanks for the info mate.

Damn my lemur purchase rationalization screwed again.
A £1600 Tax rebate is smoldering in my pocket.lemur with katfood sandwiches for the next year?

To parse or not to parser that it the question.

My new fun game.. Programming a lemur template while composing a song.
Just have the jazz editor on another screen and dra to the lemur what you need in the current song you're working on... Fun

also, jazzmutant is implied in a project with some research guys, called Virages, that should really start in january 2008 with goals like defining a unique OSC protocol, or listening to users requests to get sound, lights and video controllers working with the same control surfaces. Apart from music, I also work for theater and dance so I can see some reaaly interesting stuff in this project. but I don't have a Lemur

Bit -

With regards to latency I dont own a lemur so have no experience of what it feels like, but I do own a kaos pad and bcr2000 and I feel the latency on these, my guess is that the lemur adds to the allready present midi latency so it will be grater than a normal midi controler(BCR,Kaos).
I tend to use the trusty mouse when i want to rec a realtime controller much more snappy.

Bit +

But the practical advantages and depth of function are a massive plus.I must of spent 1000's on controllers that never satisfied my need

Bit -

Have been burned by depreciation and gear becoming £ obsolete in the past

Bit +

Jazz mutant have a head start in their implementation and intergration

Bit -

The lemur has been realesed in the wild for sometime now .Is it due for some evolution.Darwin thinks it will get bigger and cheaper?

Arrrrrrgggggg (breaks down and polishes credit card)

Mr. Bit,

If a new Lemur came out right now, I wouldn't regret a thing. I have used mine sooo much in the past 12 months that I can safely say it is the most used piece of gear i my studio. If you want it, think you can use it to it's full potential then there is no reason to wait. The computer music industry is too full of people waiting for the "next" thing that it is now boring. I prefer doing than waiting.

hoffman2k wrote:My new fun game.. Programming a lemur template while composing a song.
Just have the jazz editor on another screen and dra to the lemur what you need in the current song you're working on... Fun

Yep, I do this with pretty much all my tunes. I build devices to use in my tunes as I am producing. Is a good way to get and organic, not overly "programmed" feel to your tracks without too much effort.