Ableton Forum

Live's audio engine and effects has been improved so that raises this classic question again.

Live is my main DAW and I love composing music in Live's session view but I don't exactly love using the arrangement view as main sequencer but I could get use to it I think.

I have been thinking about either upgrading Cubase SX 2 to CB 4 (which is more than 2 times the cost of Live upgrade) or selling it (which could pay for an upgrade ).
Will I be fine with using only Live (+an audio editor)?

Or will I need CB 4 at a later time when I want to make an album for instance?

Are there any features you feel are missing from Live?

I make do just fine - though granted, the visuals might be improved. I would hate having to get used to a new workflow and interface on top of Live's.

No, Live won't cut it. No way. You're a Pro - you need pro software.

So there - sell your license, move on to Cubase. That'll cut it - You'll be producing dope beats in no time. Yeah.

-M

hmmmm

Soarer wrote:Live is my main DAW and I love composing music in Live's session view but I don't exactly love using the arrangement view as main sequencer but I could get use to it I think.

so what is it you don't like about the arrangement view?

i was the other way around for a year or 2. i didn't even mess with the session view or try to learn it. now i use both together all the time. awesomeness

edit: double post...

the ableton forum is slowwww today...

triple post

Soarer wrote:Live's audio engine and effects has been improved so that raises this classic question again.

Live is my main DAW and I love composing music in Live's session view but I don't exactly love using the arrangement view as main sequencer but I could get use to it I think.

I have been thinking about either upgrading Cubase SX 2 to CB 4 (which is more than 2 times the cost of Live upgrade) or selling it (which could pay for an upgrade ).
Will I be fine with using only Live (+an audio editor)?

Or will I need CB 4 at a later time when I want to make an album for instance?

You've given me a lot to think about. I, like you, have been using Live as my main DAW. I have been since v4. Not only has it done everything I needed, but I haven't even noticed the super horrible audio engine until everyone mentioned it. Now, out of spite for years of abuse, I'm going to leave Live and go over to Cubase.

I feel free already.

It only misses track folders and curves really, And a more fluid management of tracks in general. But you can finish a project for sure.
The thing is, how much can you refine this project if you get tired of some cumberness, so maybe you dump the tracks and go Logic or Protools. I rarely do.

Soarer wrote:Live's audio engine and effects has been improved so that raises this classic question again.

Live is my main DAW and I love composing music in Live's session view but I don't exactly love using the arrangement view as main sequencer but I could get use to it I think.

I have been thinking about either upgrading Cubase SX 2 to CB 4 (which is more than 2 times the cost of Live upgrade) or selling it (which could pay for an upgrade ).
Will I be fine with using only Live (+an audio editor)?

Or will I need CB 4 at a later time when I want to make an album for instance?

I bought cubase for that same reason.
Because live's arrangement page has to be the worst arrangement page ever in any program. I mean even little programs like energyxt2 have better arrangement pages. Should be called the mickey mouse page. I'd stick to cubase for your arrangements(you know how good it is for that and if you don't...... oh well). I've used live since version 3 and never got used to it, far to fiddley.
Can't get enough of the session view though, love you!

nate_D wrote:triple post

Quadruple post?

The biggest misses in Live compared to Cubase

1) Native and easily configured dual monitor support with arrangement window on 1 screen and mixing windows on the 2nd.

2) Crossfading different audio clips on the arrangement window on the same track.

3) Off line processing - a huge plus when running a slightly older computer, you can process all your fx offline to save huge CPU cycles

4) MIDI editing - inline MIDI editing and more features, more synths configured out of the box to work right away.

5) Scoring - it might not come close to Sibelius, but MIDI scoring is fairly useful and better than what is offered in Sonar and Samplitude.

6) Ability to open 3 seperate resizeable mixer windows so much better when you have 20 or more tracks for mixing than Live's session view mixer

7) Folder tracks - although I never really used 'em much myself, they are useful, especially for helping to comp vocal takes.

greater file support - real media, ogg vorbis, mp3, broadcast wvave import and export etc.

9) Cubase 4 has improved synths and plugins - however, for the 350 dollars more Cubase 4 costs, you could buy some great 3rd party plugins to use in Live which would improve and probably surpass the cubase offerings.

10) It has support for playback/exporting 5.1 surround sound mixes, if your hardware supports it.


Some of this stuff can be worked around to some extent in Live and most of it are not features you would use everyday. If I had to choose one DAW, I would still choose Live, I hate composing music in Cubase's rigid linear environment.

Cryptic UK wrote:I bought cubase for that same reason.
Because live's arrangement page has to be the worst arrangement page ever in any program. I mean even little programs like energyxt2 have better arrangement pages. Should be called the mickey mouse page. I'd stick to cubase for your arrangements(you know how good it is for that and if you don't...... oh well). I've used live since version 3 and never got used to it, far to fiddley.[/size]

It's fiddley alright - like I said, it's the one thing I still could see improved in Live (apart from even better quality of the effects). But would a more pleasing experience in arrange view make you create better music? That's one of the interesting things to ponder - how the tools shape the art. In the realm of digital music, it's also one of the most frustrating - to keep up with the choices of approach.

Sure, better arrangement would enhace expression. No dount about it unless you are going really minimal. But I use Live to make, infact, arrangements, and a more fluid enviroment would be of absolute help. Think about for example the impossibility to select non contiguous tracks, it's time wasting at its best. To freeze and flatten multiple things, I always have to move the track positions until a group is formed and then proceed. Track folders would imprve this no end.

I agree, the Arrangement view in Live lacks things like multiple track takes (great for vocals), folders, etc.. As much as Ableton is pushing Live as a main DAW app, I'm surprised they haven't added these basic things by now. Thena gain, Ableton have always been stingy. No PDC until Live 5, no multi-core supprot until Live 6,.. Maybe we'll get the other basic stuff by Live 8 (next Christmas?)