Hey all,
I'm currently piecing together a live set and have stumbled across a bit of a problem I thought I'd share in the hope of some advice or suggestions.
One of my tracks has an automated tempo drop in both breakdowns of the original tune. The main track is at 134BPM, and at the start of each break the tempo slides it's way slowly down to 110, sits there for a few bars and then eases back up to 134 by the time the tune kicks back in.
This poses a significant problem in arranging the track for live performance as - to the best of my knowledge - you can't automate a gradual tempo change over the course of a sample using session view (though I'm aware that you can set a new tempo by triggering a new scene).
I have tried warp-markering the key tempo shift points, but without being able to also "slide" the master tempo mid-scene I am at a bit of a loss...
Any suggestions on how best to approach this?
HELP: Tempo Shift
How about ..mm
resample from arrangement, then drop the relevant clips in session view.
Unwarp the clips and use follow actions.
That might work.
Regards
resample from arrangement, then drop the relevant clips in session view.
Unwarp the clips and use follow actions.
That might work.
Regards
Macbook
Rme babyface pro
push 2
Genelec 1030A
Analogue gear
Stuff amassed through time
http://www.soundcloud.com/foss
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsEWQB ... smHhob59Xg
Rme babyface pro
push 2
Genelec 1030A
Analogue gear
Stuff amassed through time
http://www.soundcloud.com/foss
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsEWQB ... smHhob59Xg
Sync Live to an external Midi clock that can be controlled via Midi automation itself. Thus you automate the external clock via a clip to gradually change the tempo which Live will follow.
Another thing that might work is to map Live's Tempo to a midi control, then automate that Midi control in a clip, send the tracks output to a virtual Midi cable (MidiYoke, MapleMidi etc) and return the virtual Midi cable as remote control input into Live. That way you should be able to directly alter Live's tempo from a clip. I cannot try it myself atm, so have fun!
Another thing that might work is to map Live's Tempo to a midi control, then automate that Midi control in a clip, send the tracks output to a virtual Midi cable (MidiYoke, MapleMidi etc) and return the virtual Midi cable as remote control input into Live. That way you should be able to directly alter Live's tempo from a clip. I cannot try it myself atm, so have fun!
Cool suggestion pale1, (thanks!) though to be honest it's about where I got to just before posting.
The only problem with the idea is that adding anything else over the top of the break is going to cause all kinds of sync nightmares with just about anything other than some one-shot sounds. Do-able, but very limiting for how I have planned out the rest of my set.
Additionally, if I was to change to master tempo at any stage (which is a likelihood rather than a possibility) those breakdowns would probably end up in a bit of a train-wreck if they remain unwarped.
I suppose another option would be to remove the automation in the breaks of the original and resample for live purposes, but I think I'll use that only as a last resort at this stage; I'd really like to play the tune out as-is if at all possible.
Any other ideas?
:S
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EDIT:
Nice suggestions Timur! I certainly give the second one a whirl and let you know how I go. Automating tempo via a clip may just do the trick if it is possible... Thanks!
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EDIT2:
Just had a brain wave: if I straighten out the tempo dips in the original and resample, I could do the tempo drops manually in the live set and everything would still be linked to the master. Not sure how my audio will sound being stretched from 134 down to 110 and back (twice!), but it sounds like the simplest option so far; might give that a crack first...
The only problem with the idea is that adding anything else over the top of the break is going to cause all kinds of sync nightmares with just about anything other than some one-shot sounds. Do-able, but very limiting for how I have planned out the rest of my set.
Additionally, if I was to change to master tempo at any stage (which is a likelihood rather than a possibility) those breakdowns would probably end up in a bit of a train-wreck if they remain unwarped.
I suppose another option would be to remove the automation in the breaks of the original and resample for live purposes, but I think I'll use that only as a last resort at this stage; I'd really like to play the tune out as-is if at all possible.
Any other ideas?
:S
------------
EDIT:
Nice suggestions Timur! I certainly give the second one a whirl and let you know how I go. Automating tempo via a clip may just do the trick if it is possible... Thanks!
------------
EDIT2:
Just had a brain wave: if I straighten out the tempo dips in the original and resample, I could do the tempo drops manually in the live set and everything would still be linked to the master. Not sure how my audio will sound being stretched from 134 down to 110 and back (twice!), but it sounds like the simplest option so far; might give that a crack first...
For anyone who is interested in answers, the last idea in my previous post did the trick.
By removing the tempo shifts in the original and then re-rendering, the tempo can be pitch-shifted down & back up again for each break easily enough. After paying some attention to each clips warp mode, I was surprised to find the 25BPM shift produces few artifacts; well, few enough to make it a valid option for a live performance anyhow.
Thanks to the posters for the input on this one.
By removing the tempo shifts in the original and then re-rendering, the tempo can be pitch-shifted down & back up again for each break easily enough. After paying some attention to each clips warp mode, I was surprised to find the 25BPM shift produces few artifacts; well, few enough to make it a valid option for a live performance anyhow.
Thanks to the posters for the input on this one.
[quote="Timur"]
Another thing that might work is to map Live's Tempo to a midi control, then automate that Midi control in a clip, send the tracks output to a virtual Midi cable (MidiYoke, MapleMidi etc) and return the virtual Midi cable as remote control input into Live. That way you should be able to directly alter Live's tempo from a clip. I cannot try it myself atm, so have fun![/quote]
Now that's bloody brilliant! I'm not a DJ myself, but I've seen loads of people asking about how to mix records with large tempo changes.
But can you send midi out from an audio track? I think you'd need a second midi control track to play alongside the audio track. But I don't think that's too big a problem.
I think with a couple of small adjustments, this could work really well.
Some ideas (without trying) would be:
1. Use a real midi cable out to a midi controller in to combine the master tempo fader with the cc from the track.
2. Use midi pick up mode so that the tempo change will start from where ever your current tempo is. This could work if you start the ramp in the envelope before the actual change and well outside your usual djing range.
3. If you have two midi tracks to place these clips, you could easily turn them on or off to determine which song (if any) is controlling the tempo.
Could be worth putting in the tips and tricks, if anyone gets this working smoothly.
Another thing that might work is to map Live's Tempo to a midi control, then automate that Midi control in a clip, send the tracks output to a virtual Midi cable (MidiYoke, MapleMidi etc) and return the virtual Midi cable as remote control input into Live. That way you should be able to directly alter Live's tempo from a clip. I cannot try it myself atm, so have fun!
[/quote]Now that's bloody brilliant! I'm not a DJ myself, but I've seen loads of people asking about how to mix records with large tempo changes.
But can you send midi out from an audio track? I think you'd need a second midi control track to play alongside the audio track. But I don't think that's too big a problem.
I think with a couple of small adjustments, this could work really well.
Some ideas (without trying) would be:
1. Use a real midi cable out to a midi controller in to combine the master tempo fader with the cc from the track.
2. Use midi pick up mode so that the tempo change will start from where ever your current tempo is. This could work if you start the ramp in the envelope before the actual change and well outside your usual djing range.
3. If you have two midi tracks to place these clips, you could easily turn them on or off to determine which song (if any) is controlling the tempo.
Could be worth putting in the tips and tricks, if anyone gets this working smoothly.