Ableton Forum

I haven't had time to mess around with the demo
yet, so I was hoping for some opinions (as unbiased
as they can get, please )

I've got Reason 4, I love Thor, and I don't mind
rewiring at all. The question is: do(es) Analog and/or
Operator have any "essential" features that would
justify getting them in addition to Reason?

The question for me really is if I should just upgrade
to Live 7 without bells and whistles, or if I should go
for the suite.

As an owner of Reason 4 and Live 6, I am interested in the answer to this question as well.

My guess is the stability and nativeness are the main advantages of using Live's synths, but Reason is amazingly stable anyways.

for me it comes down to workflow. if you don't mind rewiring and toggling back and forth, switching "mindsets" on which hotkeys to use, losing resources by having 2 apps open, 2 file/version management, then don't spend the money.

I have opted out of upgrading to the Suite. It's a good deal, but I have way too many soft synths, including Reason 4 to justify the upgrade. I'll just be getting the $119 upgrade.

Hi, I beta tested Live 7 for 2 months. I thought the new synths was very good and was planning to upgrade to "suite". But in the end I just upgraded to Live. I always went back to reason 4 for synth sounds. Maybe it comes down to workflow more than "soundquality". Its nothing wrong with the new Ableton synths but I prefer Reason (and also for CPU Reason ). So do yourself a favour and test the new synths before you go for the "suite". If your totally into Live workflow and have the money go for the suite, if your happy with Reason 4 stick to it. Remember that you also invest time with every new software (learn, manage, remember etc)!

Regards

i have Operator and i beta'd Analog. they're both good, but are an absolute bitch on the cpu. personally i'd stick with Thor and Malstrom. get to know Thor inside out - it's huge. much prefer it to Analog.

Thor is an absolute monster. I would take it over the Ableton synth's any day of the week. That being said, you do add that extra awkwardness of having to manage two programs via rewire. Personally, I prefer Rapture over all of the above, but that's not one of the options listed.

Thanks for the replies, guys. I'm definitely going to
give Operator and Analog a go when I finally get
the time to try out the demo, but I don't
particularly feel like shelling out for two
synthesisers that will be collecting virtual dust, so
it's great to get some feedback from people who've
had time to explore them. So far, I've been very
impressed with Thor, and I've only scratched the
surface of that monster. I really don't feel the
need for more synths, but you never know...

I always preferred FM8 to Operator, but having beta tested Operator in Live 7, the quality has improved and I really like it.

Analog has been the synth I've been least impressed with in the new instruments, but in it's favour, it is lighter on CPU than using Arturia's Analog Factory and has some decent stock analog sounds, but for range and diversity of sounds, I'd say that Gforce and Arturia's modelled synths are better. However, I have been liking Tension and Electric quite a bit too. Maybe none of them are the ultimate in their field but they are good and integrate well with Live. I am definately going to upgrade to the suite download.

Reason's synths used to suck ass - Subtractor and Malmstrom are both very weak synths, NNXT however was a good sample player with some good in the box sounds. They really needed Thor (plus the new sequencer view, as reason's old sequencer just sucked big hairy donkey balls and I know because I own it (v2.5) )

sporkles wrote:The question is: do(es) Analog and/or
Operator have any "essential" features that would
justify getting them in addition to Reason?

sound wise: yes
feature wise: no (allthough Reason does not do proper FM)

Operator and Analog lack serious modulation sources/destinations compared to Reason and especially Thor and Malstrom..
So if you are into sounddesign; stick to Reason..

I have Reason, bought Operator and haven't used it barely at all. Also I demo'ed Analog and it's not a patch on THOR.

So the simple answer to your question is, probably stick to Reason.

Regarding the workflow question, I think that the new "External Instrument" device in Live 7 revolutionises using Reason via rewire. Truly superb - so much better than before. Worth the upgrade to Live 7 just for that, to make integration between Live and Reason so much better.

Personally, as I already have Operator, the upgrade to the Suite would bring the AAS stuff, Sampler, and Drum Machines. The AAS stuff does not especially impress me and is a bitch on the CPU... so i think for me it will also be the simple Live 7 download upgrade again this time.

My thoughts:

I had Reason and then I bought Ableton (for obvious reasons...I'm a guitar player and I like looping).

Reason was great for workflow (in Reason) and I didn't mind the sound but when it came to working w/ Live via rewire, it really annoyed me. Especially, w/ midi since I'd have to save a Reason song and a Live song (under the same name) and then open both up at the same time whenever I wanted to work with it (them). Not to mention the CPU hoovering by having 2 stand alones open or the bitch of switching back and forth between programs (when you have only 1 monitor).

So...then I bought NI Komplete to get rid of the stand alones and work with plug-ins. Now my midi tracks were all in Live as well as the sound generators. NI blows Reason out of the water with it's synths, samplers, and otherwise, IMO. However, some of the stuff like Battery and Reaktor are a bit over my head and non-intuitive.

Now...I'm I upgraded to the Suite, not having operator or sampler before, in the hope of eventually keeping everything "in house" for workflow reasons; not to mention the annoying NI updates and occasional incompatibility with a new OS or simple file management problems.

Years later and $1000's spent after, I find that the old saying "less is more" is quite true. In fact, I may even delete all my random sample hits residing on my external drive, good or bad, just to free up my OCD brain and get to work.

EDITED TO ADD: I just realized the new "ext instrument" routing option solves some of these problems (the midi), though not all of them (cpu strain, 2 separate interfaces, etc.)

headquest wrote:I have Reason, bought Operator and haven't used it barely at all. Also I demo'ed Analog and it's not a patch on THOR.

So the simple answer to your question is, probably stick to Reason.

Regarding the workflow question, I think that the new "External Instrument" device in Live 7 revolutionises using Reason via rewire. Truly superb - so much better than before. Worth the upgrade to Live 7 just for that, to make integration between Live and Reason so much better.

Personally, as I already have Operator, the upgrade to the Suite would bring the AAS stuff, Sampler, and Drum Machines. The AAS stuff does not especially impress me and is a bitch on the CPU... so i think for me it will also be the simple Live 7 download upgrade again this time.

I've just tried out the Live 7 demo, and I agree that the external
instrument is the dog's bollocks (well d'uh - I suggested the device in the
feature forum a while ago ) I quickly realised that I really don't
need more synthesisers - but I will not upgrade at all until L7 is more
stable. I got audio glitches and CPU jumps when I opened a project that
works just fine in Live 6.09. I think that the minimum requirement should
be that a new version should be able to handle old projects just as well as
the previous version...

sporkles wrote:

headquest wrote:I have Reason, bought Operator and haven't used it barely at all. Also I demo'ed Analog and it's not a patch on THOR.

So the simple answer to your question is, probably stick to Reason.

Regarding the workflow question, I think that the new "External Instrument" device in Live 7 revolutionises using Reason via rewire. Truly superb - so much better than before. Worth the upgrade to Live 7 just for that, to make integration between Live and Reason so much better.

Personally, as I already have Operator, the upgrade to the Suite would bring the AAS stuff, Sampler, and Drum Machines. The AAS stuff does not especially impress me and is a bitch on the CPU... so i think for me it will also be the simple Live 7 download upgrade again this time.

I've just tried out the Live 7 demo, and I agree that the external
instrument is the dog's bollocks (well d'uh - I suggested the device in the
feature forum a while ago ) I quickly realised that I really don't
need more synthesisers - but I will not upgrade at all until L7 is more
stable. I got audio glitches and CPU jumps when I opened a project that
works just fine in Live 6.09. I think that the minimum requirement should
be that a new version should be able to handle old projects just as well as
the previous version...

Does "dog's bollocks" mean "awesome"?

We say "tits" over here. And "balls" means "bad".

Yes, "dog's bollocks" or "mutt's nuts" means *The Best*.