Ableton Forum

Hi. I have contacted Ableton support three times in the last month and a half. They say they are too busy working on version 7 to help me! Furthermore, they said I am the only person to ever report this problem, which I certainly don't believe as it happened on 3 separate computers.

The problem happens repeatedly when doing phase alignment. Say I want to align the snare track with the overheads. I zoom in on the tracks and use a song locater to line them up. I may have to slide the tracks just a few samples left or right, and the application just crashes and completely disappears. Live will disappear even more quickly when I try to slide the song locater back and forth to make sure the waves are aligned. The crash definitely appears to be related to the sample buffering which happens when I take these actions.

Since I have received no help from Ableton, I have tried troubleshooting this myself. The first thing I did was to adjust the audio buffer size larger and smaller, since this appears to be related to the buffering of samples. That didn't help. I have replaced my memory. I have ran both my operating system and the application (including my audio files) from an external firewire drive. I have tried running both 10.3 and 10.4 in various updates, erasing and reformatting each time. I took the computer to Apple for testing, and they said it was not a hardware issue. Then I returned my computer to the seller, and he let me test Live out on 3 different computers. The bug happened the exact same way on both of the dual processor G5 Powermacs, so I ended up just keeping the computer I had purchased. Ironically, the bug did not repeat itself on the single processor G5 (1.8 GHZ). I thought maybe it's related to Live's dual processor support. So I then tried turning dual processor support on and off in Live's preferences, using my original computer. It made no difference. So I have run out of ideas.

I'm not going to post the entire crash log, but I will paste the beginning of it below. My setup info is in my signature. Thanks in advance for any helpful advice.


Command: Live
Path: /Applications/Live 6.0.10 OS X/Live.app/Contents/MacOS/Live
Parent: WindowServer [118]

Version: 6.0.10 (6.0.10)

PID: 7047
Thread: 0

Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x00000010

Thread 0 Crashed:
0 com.ableton.live 0x0082cca8 receive_samples + 3748000
1 com.ableton.live 0x0082cca4 receive_samples + 3747996
2 com.ableton.live 0x01144788 dyld_stub_NewNavObjectFilterUPP + 277344
3 com.ableton.live 0x006cf628 receive_samples + 2316832
4 com.ableton.live 0x006caac4 receive_samples + 2297532
5 com.ableton.live 0x008297f4 receive_samples + 3734508
6 com.ableton.live 0x00833a10 receive_samples + 3776008
7 com.ableton.live 0x008424a8 receive_samples + 3836064
8 com.ableton.live 0x00842770 receive_samples + 3836776
9 com.ableton.live 0x0081d8c0 receive_samples + 3685560
10 com.ableton.live 0x00805930 receive_samples + 3587368
11 com.ableton.live 0x00edb5e8 receive_samples + 10754528
12 com.ableton.live 0x00ed1ef0 receive_samples + 10715880
13 com.ableton.live 0x00daf5e4 receive_samples + 9525724
14 com.ableton.live 0x00e2ce60 receive_samples + 10039896
15 com.ableton.live 0x012ad154 dyld_stub_NewNavObjectFilterUPP + 1754412
16 com.ableton.live 0x008b5dc4 receive_samples + 4309436
17 com.ableton.live 0x008c3eb0 receive_samples + 4367016
18 com.ableton.live 0x008c12a4 receive_samples + 4355740
19 com.ableton.live 0x008b24a4 receive_samples + 4294812
20 com.ableton.live 0x00e2fbf8 receive_samples + 10051568
21 com.ableton.live 0x012ad1f4 dyld_stub_NewNavObjectFilterUPP + 1754572
22 com.ableton.live 0x008b24e8 receive_samples + 4294880
23 com.ableton.live 0x00b1dbe0 receive_samples + 6832088
24 com.ableton.live 0x00921958 receive_samples + 4750672
25 com.ableton.live 0x010cb7e0 receive_samples + 12786648
26 com.ableton.live 0x010c7de8 receive_samples + 12771808
27 com.ableton.live 0x010694b0 receive_samples + 12384424
28 com.ableton.live 0x01068568 receive_samples + 12380512
29 com.ableton.live 0x0132cfe8 dyld_stub_NewNavObjectFilterUPP + 2278336
30 com.ableton.live 0x0106f488 receive_samples + 12408960
31 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x9329a934 DispatchEventToHandlers(EventTargetRec*, OpaqueEventRef*, HandlerCallRec*) + 692
32 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x9329a08c SendEventToEventTargetInternal(OpaqueEventRef*, OpaqueEventTargetRef*, HandlerCallRec*) + 372
33 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x932a0e90 SendEventToEventTarget + 40
34 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x9332d230 HandleMouseEventForWindow(OpaqueWindowPtr*, OpaqueEventRef*, unsigned short) + 236
35 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x934903e8 HandleMouseEvent(OpaqueEventRef*) + 368
36 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x932a11fc ToolboxEventDispatcherHandler(OpaqueEventHandlerCallRef*, OpaqueEventRef*, void*) + 496
37 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x9329ab84 DispatchEventToHandlers(EventTargetRec*, OpaqueEventRef*, HandlerCallRec*) + 1284
38 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x9329a08c SendEventToEventTargetInternal(OpaqueEventRef*, OpaqueEventTargetRef*, HandlerCallRec*) + 372
39 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x932a0e90 SendEventToEventTarget + 40
40 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x932e1c04 ToolboxEventDispatcher + 92
41 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x932e1b90 HLTBEventDispatcher + 16
42 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x932e0148 RunApplicationEventLoop + 148
43 com.ableton.live 0x01073328 receive_samples + 12424992
44 com.ableton.live 0x0049a1c8 receive_samples + 1472
45 dyld 0x8fe01048 _dyld_start + 60

Never seen that problem, and I've been running Live 6.0.x on a dual G5 for over 14 months, every day, until now of course when 7.0.1 is out.

If you suspect the samples, what audio driver are you using? Try to run with the internal driver to see if there's a difference. I also assume you have the latest/greatest audio driver installed on your system for the particular audio card or firewire box you are running.

Also, I would not run MacOSX from a FW hard disk with the audio running at the same time over FW, too much performance hits or other odd things could happen. Run MacOSX from an internal hard disk or hard disk partition. --Kent

Hi AbstractMath,

We are indeed rather busy with Live 7, but I can try to have a peek at the problem. Do you think you could PM me the whole crash log?

Carl

thanks for the replies...

Kent: Which OS do you run? Which cpu do you have? Do you know its build date? Maybe it is a firmware issue or something. Do you do much phase alignment, especially using a song locater line? How is Live 7 working for you?

When I tested Live on the dealer's other dual G5s, I did not use my own audio interface. I just loaded Live, and ran it in demo mode from my program files which were on an external firewire drive. I used the machines' built-in soundcards.

For the most part, the program runs fine. I know it may seem trivial to bitch about something so small. But I am often experimenting with several different mics on several different sources. So for me, this way of phase alignment is a part of my recording process. The program dies every 3 minutes or so doing it, and that is a huge pain in my ass when I'm trying to finish a project for a client (or a friend).


Carl: Thanks for agreeing to look at this issue for me. I hope that crash log will help you find a solution.

AbstractMath wrote:thanks for the replies...

Kent: Which OS do you run? Which cpu do you have? Do you know its build date? Maybe it is a firmware issue or something. Do you do much phase alignment, especially using a song locater line? How is Live 7 working for you?

When I tested Live on the dealer's other dual G5s, I did not use my own audio interface. I just loaded Live, and ran it in demo mode from my program files which were on an external firewire drive. I used the machines' built-in soundcards.

For the most part, the program runs fine. I know it may seem trivial to bitch about something so small. But I am often experimenting with several different mics on several different sources. So for me, this way of phase alignment is a part of my recording process. The program dies every 3 minutes or so doing it, and that is a huge pain in my ass when I'm trying to finish a project for a client (or a friend).


Carl: Thanks for agreeing to look at this issue for me. I hope that crash log will help you find a solution.

MacOSX 10.4.11 (always the latest), 2x 2.0GHz PPC, I don't know the build date, you mean the computer system itself? I think it's one of the first generation 2x2GHz PPC PowerMacs. I don't use phase alignment that much as I seldom record into Live (using Logic mostly for that), I could try it out. I use Live daily, never seen this crash. --Kent

HI Abstractmath,
I sympathise, having had exactly the same problem. I have a similar set up to you (see my sig) and the problem lasted for months. Live only performed reliably again when I started using the later Live 7 betas. If you're still having no joy then upgrade to L7 and save yourself some heartache. I too exchanged many emails with Ableton. They helped but only with stock replies. In the end I stopped using L6 for a while because the whole experience left me freaked. I get no commission for this, I just don't like to see unnecessary suffering. The best.

Kent:
I think I may start doing like you and record into Logic. I used to hate working in Logic (version 6), because recording and editing audio was so much more complicated than in ProTools (which is sad considering that I studied Logic in SAE's 4 month "electronic music production" program). But I've been hearing good things about version 8, and at $500 for Pro, I may finally go back. Especially after all this trouble with Live.

Artworks:
Thanks for your confirmation of this bug. It was strangely comforting in a way. Upgrading to Live 7 is certainly within my budget. It's not that i can't afford it, but that I resent having to buy an upgrade just to fix something that is broken. Especially since I just paid to upgrade from L5 to L6 a few months ago. Especially since I have been such a huge advocate for Live within my network of friends and clients. On top of that, what happens if I upgrade to L7, just to start having one of the many bugs that are being reported in that version.

I already have a love/hate relationship with computer technology. I'm sick of having to upgrade all the time, especially just to fix a defective product. All I want is my system to work the way it's designed to, so that I can spend time learning to use what I already have, rather than wasting time trying to catch up with all the new features or even worse, troubleshooting. Once I started using Live, I thought I could finally do all my work within one environment, without the complexity of Logic or the stupid interface restriction of ProTools. It now appears that may always just be a pipe dream. I still love Live for what is does, but I'm not going to invest anymore of my money into Ableton until they at least try to honestly solve this problem. Otherwise, why should I expect any different behavior from them in the future.

AbstractMath,
I agree with what you say about Live. 'Though it is a beautiful piece of software when the only problems are musical. I had near identical crash log files and spent weeks re-installing, testing and reconfiguring my set up. I believe Apple introduced some modifications to later versions of Tiger and specific applications like Quicktime which meant that some computers/users experienced the weirdness that we have witnessed. Nevertheless, I think Ableton have the best of intentions and, if you haven't done so already, download and run Live 7 and see if that works. I'd like to know how you get on. Keep posting.

AbstractMath,
Of course, I mean the Live 7 demo!