Ableton Forum

I guess what I am trying to get at is that I am used to the old days of a external mixer and separate sound modules etc. And , I am by no means a professional and consider my self a amateure with some knowledge, but...

with LIVE (which is my first software sequencer)if I have 4 traks going, and I raise the volume of say a synth or bass line, it seems to make the kick(foot) lower in volume. Or vice versa, i can higher the kick and the other parts (might) get lower. I am not talking about phase shifting or anything of the like. BUt it's frustrating becaue I feel like I am juggling sounds here. I can hear it. The way the one channel fader over powers the other.

Am I missing something? I don't remember this with external hardware. It feels like when I use the computer (LIVE) , 1. Either I am being limited with a smaller amount of dynamic space, or there is something that drowns out that other sound. Sort of like how a ducker works. If you know what a ducker is that would explain it the BEST. And that is what I am hearing in the mix.

Can any one shed some light? The only words that come to mind from a thread i saw online elsewhere is, "overdriving the summing amps"

In this article:

http://mars.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/11745/

yeah that does sound like you've got everything running too hot maybe ? do you have either the master fader or the individual tracks running into the red all the time ?
Also what soundcard / output are you using, and into what monitors / amps etc ?

GUY SMILEY wrote:yeah that does sound like you've got everything running too hot maybe ? do you have either the master fader or the individual tracks running into the red all the time ?
Also what soundcard / output are you using, and into what monitors / amps etc ?

THanks for your reply GUY SMILEY,

1. ) I keep the master signal right under the red, meaning every once in a while it will hit the red , but it it is not running in the red. It hits the red and turns back to green very fast. So , I guess you can say I have small little peaks that turn the master fader output red. I NEVER have my channel faders in the red,, Never.

2.) I am using an imac g5 1.9 ghz, 1 gig of ram. I use the built in sound card in the mac, the Burr Brown PCM3052 24/96

3.)And, sadly to say I am using some very cheap powered monitors which are running directly out of the built in Line out on the imac. (Note: I do notice this "problem" rearding the sound I am having, even with headphones.

But, I do not over power the speakers whatesoever I keep them pretty low , actually. But even if I turn them up the same "problem" is there.

I hope that helps you, help me,
please, please, post back.

thanks,

poops

Hey Poops,

From what you've said it sounds like its a problem with the computer and soundcard. Unfortunately I don't have a mac I use for music (just one for the internet) so I can't help much more personally..sorry. On prinicple i would definitely consider getting a decent sound card / audio interface if I were you - you will notice an amazing increase in sound quality.. but I don't think the internal soundcard on macs is as bad as you're describing.. Its also definitely NOT the software.. ??? bit perplexing really..

So, you are narrowing it down to the computer and sound card. But, I don't understand your reason. ??

is there a compressor anywhere in this signal chain - either hardware or software ?

Angstrom wrote:is there a compressor anywhere in this signal chain - either hardware or software ?

oh no...absolutely not. I am very aware of what a compressor can do to sound. That is also why I used the concept of ducking to describe what the problem sounds like.

Am I just hearing the limitations of using a software sequencer's internal mixer?

actually, ive noticed this too with the addition of the new audio engine.
i rarely run anything into the red but i still get a slight ducking effect, even without any compressors or limiters in my chains.

seems strange. Of course theoretically there could be a fault in the audio engine, esp since it's been revised in the last update but it seems unlikely such a thing would get past quality control.

Obviously using your bog-standard internal soundcard and cheap speakers isn't exactly the way to go. I would not be surprised if some processing/limiting was going on behind the scenes there, (kinda like the iTunes audio processing thing that is on in the background unless you manually switch it off) especially if the master was going into the red at some point.

poops wrote:So, you are narrowing it down to the computer and sound card. But, I don't understand your reason. ??

good question.. I probably wasn't as scientific in my analysis as I could have been.
Basically i assumed it wasn't the software - or we'd have heard a lot more abouit..
I also assumed it wasn't the speakers ( as you mentioned having teh same problem with the earphones) - so that sort of leaves your computer / soundcard.. not particularly helpful though sorry

Turn down the master channel volume until you aren't in the red, for sure.
Turn up your amplifier volume to compensate.
Still hear the ducking?

My first guess was the same as Guy Smiley's first guess.
But I'd trust my ears more than that fader animation.

laird wrote:Turn up your amplifier volume to compensate.
Still hear the ducking?

My first guess was the same as Guy Smiley's first guess.
But I'd trust my ears more than that fader animation.

Thanks for your reply. Where in PDX are you? I'm in NE. And thank you for your advice.

laird wrote:Turn up your amplifier volume to compensate.
Still hear the ducking?

And I am doing just that, that is sound 101 and great advice for anyone whether you are using digital or analogue gear, but I already have my system set up accordingly.


Anyway, I'm gonna go down to a buddies house this month down in cali and see his setup and bring some of my mixes down there, and see if I can hear it there.

Thanks guys and gals for taking some time out to shed sonme light
peace

I'm sorry if it's already obvious to you, but not everyone is aware that turning down the master fader turns down the output level of the master bus, but how about the incoming signal level sent to the master bus? I mean, if you have 5 or more track faders set close to 0dB so they are not going red, but when those all are sent to master bus for summing, it overloads the bus. If you don't have any Live device or plugin on the master channel, you'll not see this incoming level meter. But insert any device there, and you will see the meter on the _left side_ of the device (you could insert something like the freely downloadable Roger Nichols Inspector, to get information whether the signal is clipping).

There's also another helpful article about it here:
http://www.wiretotheear.com/2008/01/25/ ... er-at-0db/[/url]

m8 im having the exact same problem im using ableton 7 on my laptop with the standard sound card thats in my laptop and not great quality speakers, my laptops a hp pavillion with 2 gig ram and a fast processer, iv noticed that this problem still happens even when recording a mix to a cd but what i have noticed is that last post before mine has helped by reducing all the volumes, i havent tried his through the speakers yet only through the head phone but it seems to work{fingers crossed}lol if you find anything else will you let me know much appreciated

If its a problem with a soundcard, then you should be able to render the song, burn the file to CDr, play it on a stereo, and the problem will be gone.

But if you still hear ducking on CD, then you can rule out the cheap soundcard causing the issue itself. (although poor monitoring conditions often lead to poor mixing decisions, so a better soundcard/monitors may fix the problem in an indirect fashion still)

What version of Live are we discussing here?