Hi!
I am new to Live 3. I have at the moment 3 new projects to use with Live, all of them, really to perform live. One of the bigger problems I find now is that I cannot fire a whole scene with 4-5 tracks, where some tracks starts at beat 1 and some tracks starts one 1/16 or 1/8-note before. In musical terms, some tracks are melodies that starts before the down beat, something that happen very very often in music. Because of the nature of my music, with lots of influences from Cuban music (I am a Cuban producer/musician), some lines are very rhythmic and syncopated, with loops starting on the 4th beat or even on the last 1/16th note and some others starting on the 1st beat. I tried with negative offset but does not work at all. What I want is to have all the down beats in the same line, and just move the starting points of the clips. Sorry if my english is not so good.
Is there some tips to achieve that wihtout breaking the magic of Live 3?
Thanks in advance!!!
alvarez
Still cannot make it with clips starting at different offset
-
Guest
Re: Still cannot make it with clips starting at different offset
three words
volume clip envelope
volume clip envelope
Please please please!!!
Can you be more specific? I just try this volume clip envelop and that doesnt work for me. I repeat these are melodies, some are even one-shot clips, not loops. So when I want to fire into a scene together with other clips, they dont start on the right note because they must start BEFORE THE OTHER CLIPS THAT START ON THE ONE.
Situation: I start a performance by firing a scene with 6 tracks, then I fire a next scene where 4 clips are loops starting on the down beat, one sould start at the last 1/8th BEFORE this downbeat and still one more clip starting at the last 1/16th BEFORE the same downbeat. So, in this situation, what I want is to have this 2 clips starting BEFORE the rest of the scene, I mean, right BEFORE tne downbeat.
Sorry, sorry, but I cannot make it with volume clip envelope because then I waste a whole bar in the change or the melodies are fired at the wrong position, with a kind of undesirable offset.
Please remember I am new with Live.
Thanks again,
alvarez
Can you be more specific? I just try this volume clip envelop and that doesnt work for me. I repeat these are melodies, some are even one-shot clips, not loops. So when I want to fire into a scene together with other clips, they dont start on the right note because they must start BEFORE THE OTHER CLIPS THAT START ON THE ONE.
Situation: I start a performance by firing a scene with 6 tracks, then I fire a next scene where 4 clips are loops starting on the down beat, one sould start at the last 1/8th BEFORE this downbeat and still one more clip starting at the last 1/16th BEFORE the same downbeat. So, in this situation, what I want is to have this 2 clips starting BEFORE the rest of the scene, I mean, right BEFORE tne downbeat.
Sorry, sorry, but I cannot make it with volume clip envelope because then I waste a whole bar in the change or the melodies are fired at the wrong position, with a kind of undesirable offset.
Please remember I am new with Live.
Thanks again,
alvarez
-
Guest
Hi there Alvarez,
You need to do some workarounds here, or at least some preparation. I will try to explain as best I can. Ableton guys, perhaps you could make this easier for us with a Loop offset which can start before a loop.
1st, you probably need to work out which clips need to start before the downbeat, then assign them their own track, or at least a track which will not need to cut into another track. Live of course, can not play more than one clip on a track at once (yet).
then we need to know how far before the downbeat your melodies go. In your example you said the melodies you have go as far as 1/4 beat before. So you will need to trigger the scene BEFORE 1/4 before the downbeat of the next bar.
What you will need to do is
1. move the Loop Offset
2. Change the Launch Quantization
3. Creat a Volume envelope
Lets say you have a melody which starts 1/4 note before the downbeat of the next bar.
If you want to be able to trigger ANY time in the bar before, then you will need to have nothing playing on this clips scene, becuase the previous clip will stop 1 bar before the next pattern
I suggest you trigger the clips on beat 1 of the bar before. That is probably as close to the feel of triggering we can get, without too much error
1. Move the Loop offset (the little arrow in the clip view which is where the clip starts) to the 1/2 note before the start of the bar
2. Change the launch quantization OF THE CLIP (left side option in clip viewer) to 1/2 notes
3. Create a volume envelope for the clip. you will need to turn loop off. make the beginning of the envlope (the first 1/4) be 0 in volume. then the rest can be full volume
this way the clip will actually start on the 1/2 note before the downbeat...but you will only hear it 1/4 note before the downbeat.
Leave your 'normal' clips quantization at '1 bar'.
If that doesnt work then i'm sure some combination of the above will be useful.
hope that helps,
SongCarver
You need to do some workarounds here, or at least some preparation. I will try to explain as best I can. Ableton guys, perhaps you could make this easier for us with a Loop offset which can start before a loop.
1st, you probably need to work out which clips need to start before the downbeat, then assign them their own track, or at least a track which will not need to cut into another track. Live of course, can not play more than one clip on a track at once (yet).
then we need to know how far before the downbeat your melodies go. In your example you said the melodies you have go as far as 1/4 beat before. So you will need to trigger the scene BEFORE 1/4 before the downbeat of the next bar.
What you will need to do is
1. move the Loop Offset
2. Change the Launch Quantization
3. Creat a Volume envelope
Lets say you have a melody which starts 1/4 note before the downbeat of the next bar.
If you want to be able to trigger ANY time in the bar before, then you will need to have nothing playing on this clips scene, becuase the previous clip will stop 1 bar before the next pattern
I suggest you trigger the clips on beat 1 of the bar before. That is probably as close to the feel of triggering we can get, without too much error
1. Move the Loop offset (the little arrow in the clip view which is where the clip starts) to the 1/2 note before the start of the bar
2. Change the launch quantization OF THE CLIP (left side option in clip viewer) to 1/2 notes
3. Create a volume envelope for the clip. you will need to turn loop off. make the beginning of the envlope (the first 1/4) be 0 in volume. then the rest can be full volume
this way the clip will actually start on the 1/2 note before the downbeat...but you will only hear it 1/4 note before the downbeat.
Leave your 'normal' clips quantization at '1 bar'.
If that doesnt work then i'm sure some combination of the above will be useful.
hope that helps,
SongCarver
-
Guest
Bit of a problem I realized.
If you are triggering the next scene, and there is only an empty slot after you melody(which has an upbeat), then half a bar will be cut off.
That is, you wont hear the end of the melody.
the solution is to create a clip of 'silence'. SET the silence clips Launch quantization to '1 BAR'. make sure the clip is not looping, to save CPU.
This will make your previous (upbeat) clip play until the downbeat, when the silence clip will be triggered.
ALSO,
I forgot to tell you..on your clips with upbeats,
set the volume envelope to UNLINKED
also
Turn off LOOP for the Volume envelope.
all best
SongCarver
If you are triggering the next scene, and there is only an empty slot after you melody(which has an upbeat), then half a bar will be cut off.
That is, you wont hear the end of the melody.
the solution is to create a clip of 'silence'. SET the silence clips Launch quantization to '1 BAR'. make sure the clip is not looping, to save CPU.
This will make your previous (upbeat) clip play until the downbeat, when the silence clip will be triggered.
ALSO,
I forgot to tell you..on your clips with upbeats,
set the volume envelope to UNLINKED
also
Turn off LOOP for the Volume envelope.
all best
SongCarver
-
Guest
Loops starting before the bar
I am new to Live as well, so am offering this as a 'will this work' suggestion: If you are doing a production rather than playing the music live, could you 'paint' the required one-shot into the arrangement view and place it wherever you want befoer the start of a bar?
Experienced Live users; is the above a valid suggestion?
Cheers, the bonus.
Experienced Live users; is the above a valid suggestion?
Cheers, the bonus.
-
Guest
You are very welcome alvarez,
the bonus, I think your idea would be fine for production, or a more 'prepared' set.
Another idea, there might also be something you can do with legato mode
If you set the all the clips which have upbeats to LEGATO mode. this way, the next clip will start playing at the exact point the old one departed.
you would still want to set these clips to launch quantization of 1/4 etc.
To stop the side-effect of cutting into the currently playing melody you may still need separate tracks. Also, you need a 'silence' clip playing in the track before you trigger the new clip, otherwise the clip will start from the downbeat only.
The advantage of doing it this was is that you dont have to create volume envelopes or change the Loop offset.
Disadvantage is that you may get more of the new clip than you want.
Let me know if it works for you.
SC
the bonus, I think your idea would be fine for production, or a more 'prepared' set.
Another idea, there might also be something you can do with legato mode
If you set the all the clips which have upbeats to LEGATO mode. this way, the next clip will start playing at the exact point the old one departed.
you would still want to set these clips to launch quantization of 1/4 etc.
To stop the side-effect of cutting into the currently playing melody you may still need separate tracks. Also, you need a 'silence' clip playing in the track before you trigger the new clip, otherwise the clip will start from the downbeat only.
The advantage of doing it this was is that you dont have to create volume envelopes or change the Loop offset.
Disadvantage is that you may get more of the new clip than you want.
Let me know if it works for you.
SC