Ableton Forum

Yesterday I posted a vid on Youtube of me improvising with a sequencer patch I did on my Lemur and Max/Msp. The first comment I got was "I don't like how it sounds..." the second "The first kick drum sound needs work". (Along with positive comments on the sequencer itself). I remember many years back when I used to hang at the KVR forum - alot of times when you posted a song - the comments would be "needs some work with the upper mids", "the bass sound clashes with the kick".

I'm wondering what drives you to make such comments. Why don't you comment on what the feeling of the song is? What does it communicate? Why are we being so god damned technical? And believe you me - I love the geekiness and technical parts of computer music. But somewhere along that line people seem to forget what music is about.

Or are we automatically putting our selves out there to be critiqued as soon as we "release" something into the digital domain?

The reason I share (patches, ideas, music) is that communities like this forum, the Jazzmutant forum, generous posters on Youtube, have totally made it possible for me to even come this far (whatever that is) within my music hobby. Without peers who share the same passion I think that I would not have been given enough input and energy to develop. * sap *

About those comments. They don't really matter since (as I commented on Youtube) I wasn't really putting on a performance or giving a concert. But I think it's a shame that some of the people out there have that approach: "I don't like that kick drum". What do you achieve by such a comment?

-M

they're just being honest,
what more can you ask for ?

you seem to be suffering from a mild case of artist-up-his-own-hole syndrome...
get some rest and plenty of orange juice.

as we get more knowlegeable, we get less sensible, literally : we sense less. Our cerebral cortex, overactive, gets in the way of nervous tissue closer to the base of the spine.

any great artist makes the technical effectively disappear, and we are carried away by the work.

many people, especially the very skilled, effectively get lost in the details, and forget the whole.

that's not to say the poster wasn't right about your kick drum tho'! take what's good, and leave the rest.

first I must say that that vid didn't show me anything interesting at all other than a very nice tune to listen to.. (the kick was ok )..

the thing with these demo vids is that if you don't physically control it yourself it's just plain boring to watch..

the 'magic' you are experiencing, the hard labor you put in.. all non relevant for a viewer..
(if you would actually explain what is going on; that would be great)

so in the end that leaves nothing but the music to comment on, I guess..


in general I would say that the interwebs made people fecking spoiled as well..

blablabla I know it all blablabla I can't afford a Lemur blablabla thats why your kick sucks blablabla

the ability to act with both honesty and graciousness is a rare gift. i wouldn't expect many people to have it in the first place, much less those who spend their days lurking on youtube, commenting on others' performances.

maybe enough people are into this now that the scenester rabble has trailed in behind the devotees.

I like vids of people showing off what they're up to. Fun!

Comments like "I don't like the kick" are not so helpful, but I sometimes people get caught up in wanting to offer some kind of technical criticism, usually constructive...when they might be better off just responding to the art instead.

For example, it's fine with me if someone says they like or dislike what I'm doing, but I really value the technical criticism since I rarely take artistic criticism very seriously.

hi lo-fi
i see what you mean.
but if people complain about a kick drum it means that they don't feel the music. it means there's something else that is wrong.
a minute ago someone asked feedback about a track. it wasn't good and it didn't touch me at all. so my comment was "i don't like the drum sound". i also could say that the track was shite. but changing the drum sound would be a good start so that's what i suggested.

people are pissed that you have a lemur and they don't. as a matter of fact, i am too. you suck.

youtube is not really a good place to fully experience music, either. i'd say put a link up with just an mp3 for the music if you want people to just experience that. if i see someone trying to demonstrate their abilities with a lemur and max, which are not yet really considered instruments by the general public, i'm going to want to focus on the technical aspects rather than the results, you know?

You got very complimentary quotes - all of the posters seemed knowledgeable enough to at least give you props on the sequencer - so what are you complaining about?

As far as the "feeling" and "what the music communicates" - what are you talking about? Maybe I missed the point, but wasn't your intent to demo the sequencer? Why didn't you give some pointers, like “Ok, right now I am going to change the pitch by etc etc etc?”

Lo-Fi Massahkah wrote:Yesterday I posted a vid on Youtube of me improvising with a sequencer patch I did on my Lemur and Max/Msp. The first comment I got was "I don't like how it sounds..." the second "The first kick drum sound needs work". (Along with positive comments on the sequencer itself). I remember many years back when I used to hang at the KVR forum - alot of times when you posted a song - the comments would be "needs some work with the upper mids", "the bass sound clashes with the kick".

I'm wondering what drives you to make such comments. Why don't you comment on what the feeling of the song is? What does it communicate? Why are we being so god damned technical? And believe you me - I love the geekiness and technical parts of computer music. But somewhere along that line people seem to forget what music is about.

Or are we automatically putting our selves out there to be critiqued as soon as we "release" something into the digital domain?

The reason I share (patches, ideas, music) is that communities like this forum, the Jazzmutant forum, generous posters on Youtube, have totally made it possible for me to even come this far (whatever that is) within my music hobby. Without peers who share the same passion I think that I would not have been given enough input and energy to develop. * sap *

About those comments. They don't really matter since (as I commented on Youtube) I wasn't really putting on a performance or giving a concert. But I think it's a shame that some of the people out there have that approach: "I don't like that kick drum". What do you achieve by such a comment?

-M

b0unce wrote:they're just being honest,
what more can you ask for ?

I'm not really asking for anything.

b0unce wrote:you seem to be suffering from a mild case of artist-up-his-own-hole syndrome...
get some rest and plenty of orange juice.

I realize that I come across that way. Not that I want to - or feel that it's true.

That's the biz. Nobody deserves a thing. But, that's whats great about it. Otherwise there would be waaaayyyyy to much.


I've got friends in bands who say; come down to the gig and support the band! Support your local yada yada.

Fuck that, be good and i'll show up. It's the law.

b0unce wrote:they're just being honest,
what more can you ask for ?

you seem to be suffering from a mild case of artist-up-his-own-hole syndrome...
get some rest and plenty of orange juice.

Lo-Fi Massahkah wrote:

I'm wondering what drives you to make such comments. Why don't you comment on what the feeling of the song is? What does it communicate? Why are we being so god damned technical? And believe you me - I love the geekiness and technical parts of computer music. But somewhere along that line people seem to forget what music is about.

Its the nature of the internet beast. Forms of communication have changed dramatically over the last 15 years with the internet and cell phones. Basicly, face to face communication is multi layered. There is eye contact or not, body language, voice tone etc. These things help add colour to what you are communicating. The whole package is important with face to face communication, because even though you might use the right words the rest of your 'language' might send the wrong meaning. People also respond uncounciously to both body and word language. Sometimes the way you ask a question shapes the response.

Using the internet removes a layer of socially based consequences as a result of 'communicating'. You can say things in a manner that would normally not be said or done when you are actually talking to someone in the flesh, and get away with it. No real relational consequences. All you have is either the black and white words, as above, or a video as well. These are a step removed from being in someones company, the presence of another person. It automatically becomes harder to consider the feelings or emotions of another person, and easier to focus on the details you want to focus on, like a kick, or your hair do. Therefore the responses you get will come from all over the place. People won't get the 'spirit' of your post or your intentions. Asking complete strangers to be 'generous' is a stretch with this type of communication, unless you already have a 'positive' relationship underway.

b0unce's response perfectly illustrates this. The first half is right on the money. The second half shows you the freedom s/he has to say more than would be acceptable with polite and generous face to face communication. No consequences. Its the nature of the beast

knotkranky wrote:Fuck that, be good and i'll show up. It's the law.

Of course. But you wouldn't go to the club listen to the show and shout "Your e-string has a nasty buzz to it." But in the anonymity of the web you can do that. Masked as "honesty". But what is gained?

pulsoc wrote:As far as the "feeling" and "what the music communicates" - what are you talking about?

Sorry. I'm being unclear. I was hoping to make a general discussion - not necessarily based on this vid. That was just a starting point for my thoughts. Well, it actually started years back on KVR.

pulsoc wrote:Maybe I missed the point, but wasn't your intent to demo the sequencer? Why didn't you give some pointers, like “Ok, right now I am going to change the pitch by etc etc etc?”

You're right. That would have been clearer.

Lo-Fi Massahkah wrote: I'm wondering what drives you to make such comments. Why don't you comment on what the feeling of the song is? What does it communicate?

Because most of the people that read these forums have no musical ideas, have no sense of feeling in music or art, and spend all their time obsessing about gear and micromanaging their productions.