Ableton Forum

Hey Ableton Family,

I'm a fairly decent producer and have been using Ableton for a while in the production process, but I've just started getting into live performance. I'm essentially running all of the music with Live and am rewiring to Reason, and I have a vocalist working on the singing end of things. I am concerned about how to make the show interesting to watch. How do you guy's do it? What kind of things do you guys like to see with electronic music, besides having visuals up?

Any feedback would be great!

Andrew Rothlisberger

We use visuals, but we also don't touch or have to look at the laptops at all. Everything is controlled from MIDI controllers, with a cardboard overlay for each song to remind us what's where. It means we interact with the audience, not the computers.

There's a video here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=1siG6_Pd-Mg

It might give you some ideas.

cheers

we use loads of hardware stuff as well as live. In fact Live is only used for the whole of about 3 tracks and then just adds elements to some others. If you can then try to add a true "live" element.

We use 2 elctribes, some ms2000s an mc505 and a microkorg as well as live vocals and guitars. pretty much everything is being played live as even the grooveboxes are being manipulated. I think people find this sort of thing a lot more interesting than seeing somebody looking like they might be posting on the ableton forum. I know I prefer to see somebody looking like they're doing something. You can't truely interact if you're just pressing play on pre rendered tracks in my opinion.

furrybum wrote:pretty much everything is being played live as even the grooveboxes are being manipulated. I think people find this sort of thing a lot more interesting than seeing somebody looking like they might be posting on the ableton forum.

hey, I'm in the middle of a live show right now and I resent that!

---

I have been pondering live shows myself, not done one for quite a few years and I don't fancy carrying a truck load of gear anymore.

Of course I am deciding how to make it half-decent as laptop performance is pretty much a black box system .
Robert Henke raised interesting points about this: it seems more 'believable' if an appropriate amount of noise comes out of that box. Appropriate amount means; what do the audience think you could control? Some drums and a bassline is very believable - while a 92 piece orchestra with studio production sounds is not very believable.

Moldover (in his controlerism video) mentions really demonstrating the key presses. We have all taken the piss out of 'full body knob turns' for ages. And it is true (IMO) that most of the audience don;t know what the hell a full body knob turn actually indicates ('a filter sweep, but what is a filter?'). Having said that - I think that fullbody knob turns and key presses that come from a jumping start off a stage riser do convey something to the audience. Yes, it is a bit dickish when considered in the cold light of day - but when done to the right level it helps people get into the damn music. Best to temper the size of the movement to the size of the venue.

lastly (and again on the black-box thing). The key to making the audience feel at ease with your hunched button stabbing and how it connects to the music is to walk away! Whenever you can safely walk away from your controller and have a drink and a bit of a dance (and interact with the crowd) then you absolutely should. Then - when you really are about to do something it makes it much more apparent. The audience think - "aha, so NOW he is triggering THAT thing"
Do not act like a constipated mix-elf bobbing lightly while 16 bars of loops scroll by, do not freeze there with your fingers resting lightly on the controls and a scrunched up brow ... instead take that time to enjoy the moment.

Good points Angstrom. That's pretty much what I'm trying to avoid. A big issue that I'm having is getting across is creating an interaction with the audience, AND an interaction between myself and my singer. He's got a great voice, but isn't the greatest performer. So I'm trying to find a way to make that connection happen.
I'm definitely not just staring at the computer screen, It's just a matter of how to execute the motions.

hey, I'm in the middle of a live show right now and I resent that!

I apologise! No offence meant but you know what I mean. I've been to too many live shows recently where it looks like the so called "live act" could just be browsing the net or posting pron spam on this very board

furrybum wrote:

hey, I'm in the middle of a live show right now and I resent that!

I apologise! No offence meant but you know what I mean. I've been to too many live shows recently where it looks like the so called "live act" could just be browsing the net or posting pron spam on this very board

I hope you know that I was joking!

Modischmusic wrote:Good points Angstrom. That's pretty much what I'm trying to avoid. A big issue that I'm having is getting across is creating an interaction with the audience, AND an interaction between myself and my singer. He's got a great voice, but isn't the greatest performer. So I'm trying to find a way to make that connection happen.
I'm definitely not just staring at the computer screen, It's just a matter of how to execute the motions.

I would say that you shouldn't try and make a quiet guy into Jim Morisson, and you also shouldn't start leaping around to compensate ... the singer will always be 70% of the focus and it will make you look ultra weird in comparison.

Sometimes 'no stage presence' is only a step away from 'intense brooding genius' in the mind of the public. Work with what you have, what makes you different. If you fight too hard against that you will only end up with a cheese and icecream sandwich.

furrybum wrote:
Quote:
hey, I'm in the middle of a live show right now and I resent that!


I apologise! No offence meant but you know what I mean. I've been to too many live shows recently where it looks like the so called "live act" could just be browsing the net or posting pron spam on this very board


I hope you know that I was joking!

I hope you know I was

cheese and icecream sandwich

For some reason that made me really hungry.

Sometimes 'no stage presence' is only a step away from 'intense brooding genius' in the mind of the public

I agree with this to an extent. Aphex twin draws a massive crowd. Considered a genius. Boring to watch though i think. Same the first time I saw squarepusher. He was hidden between a rack of stuff playing a track that sounded in every way identical to the actual release. Then he stood up and played some solo bass. The live bass was the only interesting part. Now compare that with squarepushers brother Ceephax. The man's a lunatic. No laptops in site when I saw him. Just hardware and him jumping around hitting old roland boxes and it was a million times more intense.

Autechre on the other hand played in total darkness but tore the place apart because of the music. Seriously you couldn't see them at all.

My point is that if somebody's just going to sit behind a screen it kind of takes away from things a bit. I'd rather see nothing than somebody doing nothing.

Just my humble opinion though. Sorry to rant

That's also very true. If you look at Luke Vibert, he's always just hunched over his Mac just messing with the track pad. I guess it's just a matter of how it sounds. You can be running up and down a stage with a guitar, but if you play all the wrong notes, people won't be as forgiving

It's easier to be an 'intense brooding genius' for a singer I think, because the nature of their instrument is immediately obvious. They get bonus cred points for standing there and shouting in tune. People on computers don't receive that credit - because the audience know that the computer can easily do it all itself.

Without physical cues the audience may as well be listening to an iTunes playback.
It's up to computer boy to demonstrate that he is actually doing something/anything to even get on a level par with somebody manipulating their meat tubes. Its a fact that people hunched over computers have more negative connotations to deal with - work, warez, pr0n, spreadsheets, email, spam, databases, office, PC advert guy. Yawn.

a guitarist or singer doesn't have that (its probably just iTunes) drawback , they can fake up some brooding genius out of shyness quite easily (grow hair over face) .
I think that an introverted man on a laptop should not be put in the middle of a stage at the front of the venue. If it is "all about the music" he should be off to one side. I mean - why say use stage positioning to say "HEY - look at me!! " and then hunch up like a stone gargoyle.
Pointless.

its all about fist pumping i tell you.

Video and lighting tightly synched and choreographed to the audio, live percussion (out front), remote pan/tilt/zoom cameras, wireless PS dance mat that lets the crowd launch audio, video and lighting samples.

And minimum mousing and staring at a computer screen, plenty of eye contact with the crowd, and looking like we're having fun even when everything's going wrong!

I'd rather gouge my eyes out with a rusty spoon than fist-pump, full-body-motion EQ/filter sweep, or head-bang while doing alternate knee raises... I gotta draw the line somewhere!

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