Bulletproof MIDI controller for Live???

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
tekkers
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Post by tekkers » Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:56 pm

ello sinnatagg

what is a PD patch? hopefully for the pc too?

but yah - if u could make something like that it would be fantastic!

i'd be pretty much happy with it workin on the 6 x 6 matrix - that would pretty much give me clip control over a full track in a set - then page down to the next set - or scroll would be cool too..

fishmonkey
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Post by fishmonkey » Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:50 pm

hey people

thanks for all the input...

QLab fuckin rocks! Difficult choice now between using that or Live... Big plus with QLab is being able to set up a sequence of cues that only require you to hit a "GO" button to navigate a whole show, plus video support too (also i just discovered those Matrox boxes that can enable you use 2 or 3 extra monitors/projectors on a laptop, bye bye synced DVD players), and the ability to send MIDI to control other devices...

Still, with Live you can lay clips out in a matrix which better represents the real structure when clips are mixed with other clips, edit and beat match clips, and use effects, which i sometimes need...

i'm gonna go try out some Faderfoxes and some BCF/BCRs soon....

however, something i really want is to have some BIG buttons that are easy to hit in the dark with one hand riding a mixing desk... partly why i was considering drum pad controllers, but i think pads are a bit too strange and rubbery for use as switches... minimum buttons for QLab would be next/previous cue, and GO; for Live up/down and relative clip triggers/stops for 3 tracks...

for purely button controls another possibility is using or customising a USB keypad (small, cheap and cheerful)... i've also been looking into DIY arcade gaming controllers, like this:

http://www.xgaming.com/byoarcade.shtml

so i can make my own programmable custom button controller with arcade buttons, maybe even a joystick for navigating session view... only problem is the prices for those kits from the Australian distributor is 3 times the US prices! bastards!

Bokonon
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Post by Bokonon » Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:15 pm

sinnatagg wrote:
tekkers wrote: i was hoping the lx2 would have functionality similar to that of the monodeck II 's grid but i dont think it does..

i'd really love it if the lx2's buttons could just act as a clip launching matrix - with feedback so its in sync with whats on screen.. and i could scroll down the scenes in ableton - and the lights on the fox would update
I'm hoping to make a PD patch that does this soon. The inbuilt functionality is _so_ close though.

-a
I have started work on a patch that is pretty close to what you are talking about using the MIDI implementation of the API - see below for a D/L, I'm interested in feedback.

http://groups.google.com/group/liveapi/ ... 6c486c659f

beef_wellington
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Post by beef_wellington » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:49 pm

fishmonkey:

What have you learned about potentially getting the xgaming kits to control Live?

It wasn't clear from their site exactly what type of data these controllers can output other than keystrokes. And that said PC only, I believe.

It would be nice to build a nice big button grid with those "indestructable" buttons.

beatpoet
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Post by beatpoet » Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:40 pm

Bitstream 3x is pretty bulletproof.

32 knobs, 8 sliders,
x-fader - it's a bit dinky but it works
ribbon controller -love it
X-Y joystick - not the best feature, don't use it myself, don't like the feel.

Not too expensive either

rikhyray
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Post by rikhyray » Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:51 pm

beatpoet wrote:Bitstream 3x is pretty bulletproof.

32 knobs, 8 sliders,
x-fader - it's a bit dinky but it works
ribbon controller -love it
X-Y joystick - not the best feature, don't use it myself, don't like the feel.

Not too expensive either
I was thinking of suggesting it, specially for the kind of work original poster does, but dont have personal experience with it. I definitely want another controller myself. Faderfoxes are good but i pdont like the fixed mapping, Novation SL -cheesy build quality, but automapping is good, Bitream- unknown but I am seriously interested how good it is with Live.
Would you mind sharing some more info.

fishmonkey
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Post by fishmonkey » Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:56 pm

beef_wellington wrote:fishmonkey:

What have you learned about potentially getting the xgaming kits to control Live?

It wasn't clear from their site exactly what type of data these controllers can output other than keystrokes. And that said PC only, I believe.

It would be nice to build a nice big button grid with those "indestructable" buttons.
there are various adapters, including a USB one which will make the box work with a Mac too...

the device is seen by a computer as a keyboard, so all output is keystrokes... i was planning to simply use a handful of mostly relative keymappings in Live...

could be cool to have a big joystick to navigate your sessions with...

you can program the thing by plugging a PS/2 keyboard into it...

fishmonkey
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Post by fishmonkey » Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:01 pm

beatpoet wrote:Bitstream 3x is pretty bulletproof.

32 knobs, 8 sliders,
x-fader - it's a bit dinky but it works
ribbon controller -love it
X-Y joystick - not the best feature, don't use it myself, don't like the feel.

Not too expensive either
i haven't actually used one of these, but i think CME owns it now? i'm a bit wary of anything that CME does these days, as i've had one of their UF80 controller keyboards for about 6 months now, and their firmware and tech/customer support is absolutely hopeless...

rikhyray
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Post by rikhyray » Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:06 pm

I had all of CME keyboards so I know too well what you mean, however all threse were developed by CME while Bitstream is licensed,from French company I think.

fishmonkey
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Post by fishmonkey » Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:22 pm

i know, i'm wondering how long it will take CME to fuck the thing up!

rikhyray
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Post by rikhyray » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:12 pm

If you in Europe perhaps check these
http://cgi.ebay.de/CM-Labs-Motormix-Mid ... dZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.de/doepfermidifederbox- ... dZViewItem
and any Doepfer product- if there is anything bulletproof then definitely Doepfers.

Mesmer
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Post by Mesmer » Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:15 pm

Well, OP I'm glad you liked Qlab....
also wanted to point out the obvious that if you're just wanting nice sized grab-in-the-dark button matrix it doesn't get much better than a Monome.

If you're going down the DIY route, you can build it instead of buying it...

good luck
http://www.mesmero.net
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beatpoet
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Post by beatpoet » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:37 pm

rikhyray wrote:I had all of CME keyboards so I know too well what you mean, however all threse were developed by CME while Bitstream is licensed,from French company I think.
Yeah, all the tech support is handled by Wave Idea, Jerome there knows his stuff.

Tarekith
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Post by Tarekith » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:11 pm

I was going to suggest the Bitstream as well.

beatpoet
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Post by beatpoet » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:39 pm

rikhyray wrote:
beatpoet wrote:Bitstream 3x is pretty bulletproof.

32 knobs, 8 sliders,
x-fader - it's a bit dinky but it works
ribbon controller -love it
X-Y joystick - not the best feature, don't use it myself, don't like the feel.

Not too expensive either
I was thinking of suggesting it, specially for the kind of work original poster does, but dont have personal experience with it. I definitely want another controller myself. Faderfoxes are good but i pdont like the fixed mapping, Novation SL -cheesy build quality, but automapping is good, Bitream- unknown but I am seriously interested how good it is with Live.
Would you mind sharing some more info.
Only spotted this post now,

I couldn't be without it, but it might not be for everyone, use it in mackie mode. Faders and transport controls are mapped in mackie mode. No automapping. 32 knobs, one rotary encoder. The knobs are similar to the ones on a standard analog mixer pots. You cannot use the X-Y joystick for moving around session view if you're thinking that way, not natively anyway. The limitation lies in Live not being able to select tracks by MIDI live you do scenes. I don't use the joystick (don't like the feel) but some people might have use for it. Love the ribbon controller.

I use a custom template for use with it and my trigger fingers and have all my controls mapped in Live and have made it work for me for my livesets, I only run 8 channels but with a combination of custom hardware presets, I looked at the novation series, but felt this better suited my needs.

Out of the box it's never going to be the perfect controller, but if you're get down and dirty with the editing software, you can make it work for you, it's not the easiest but it is powerful, I'm still learning as I go and still don't use all it's features but I am happy with it.

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