Ableton Forum

Posted: **Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:50 pm**

I remember hearing Paul McCartney talking once about all the little ideas for songs and the interviewer asked him if he was worried he might have lost a masterpiece somewhere by not writing it down in time or whatever, and he said that if they were any good then they tended to stick.

I have been going over the last several years of projects on various Hard drives and CDs and DVDs with bits of ideas of tracks - so I've been fighting with File manager and gradually managing to find missing samples for different projects and saving a consolidated version in a project with all the self contained samples etc

so it's basically been a process of going through and finding what ideas are worth keeping and which are just plain bizarre

I was just thinking about the fact that there is so much crap there that was just a few shitty loops chucked together and I cant honestly figure out why I even bothered saving it

It's like I have this neurotic habit of keeping every tiny idea in case there is something that triggers an idea that will turn into something good

whereas maybe there is such a thing as saving too much and being a bit more decisive as you go is the way to weed out the rubbish

Posted: **Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:06 pm**

I have to tell myself to not start new songs.. but do I listen?.. hell no..
so I end up with a HD filled with 100's of unfinished business..

reason..
- excuse to not finish stuff..
creating a new song is much easier.. hehehe..

- afraid to actually finish stuff
that might sound strange but I'm always a bit worried to fuck up stuff that was initially good..
I know; another bad excuse to not finish stuff and start a new song..

so the answer; you better finish existing stuff..
even if there's one tiny bit you take out to take a new route; it gives you a good jump-start already..
and don't worry or be afraid about deleting parts; you didn't touch that track for years for a good reason..

what sounded boring then can be an inspiration now..

Posted: **Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:15 pm**

would be interesting to hear people's finished/unfinished ratio..

Posted: **Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:23 pm**

Hey Forge.. Yeah saving and storing all our ideas is extremely easy today.

And yes, I could come up with a new project most times I start to work.. Now here comes the 'but' part...(I can totally relate to what you say about some of your older work sounding let's just say, not very inspiring).. Before I chuck em in zie trash, I give them a good try, to see if I can get something happening.. Invariably it's the 'basic' part of the idea that holds up.. And it's what I put on top that sucks.. But those 'little' basic bits can be used in other projects, ie breaks, mid 8, etc..

When you listen too Beck, Shpongle, Massive Attack and the likes of. They use tons of 'different ideas' in the same track.

All the ideas that you have come from you, and maybe some of them on their own don't do much to impress.. But put them in an 'alien' environment and watch them kik ass!

Hd

p.s Props for getting your shit organized!

Posted: **Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:26 pm**

On the subject of finding those crappy little experimental songs that are just 4 bars of a kick drum with a 303 on the top, or whatever. We are always going to generate those little snippets.
I started saving these as LiveClips in a folder called "experimental".
That means that the components can be previewed and really easily without loading up a whole song. Usually it will be a tune, melody or bassline that is what I wanted to save. When this is in LiveClip format it is much easier to evaluate, incorporate, or discard.
I also have a wave folder called "mix reminders" which is full of 16 or 32 bar weirdness.

A lot of people see it as a weakness to labour for ages on old songs, but I think in some cases it is beneficial. Sometimes having a bit of time will let you hear what is needed, what the strengths and weaknesses are. Of course some tracks are better just whapped out quickly. But I think it is good to attempt a towering monsterpeice with intricately layered parts all written at different times.

Mainly because that is unusual now, when a lot of music is generated quickly and without analysis. It makes the pieces that are like this different and different means you stand out.

Posted: **Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:33 pm**

Angstrom wrote:On the subject of finding those crappy little experimental songs that are just 4 bars of a kick drum with a 303 on the top, or whatever. We are always going to generate those little snippets.

I started saving these as LiveClips in a folder called "experimental".
That means that the components can be previewed and really easily without loading up a whole song.

Usually it will be a tune, melody or bassline that is what I wanted to save. When this is in LiveClip format it is much easier to evaluate, incorporate, or discard.

I also have a wave folder called "mix reminders" which is full of 16 or 32 bar weirdness.

A lot of people see it as a weakness to ponder for a long time on old songs, but I think in some cases it is required. Some songs you need to get a bit of distance from before you can realise exactly what its strengths are.
Of course some are better just whapped out quickly. But it's good to attempt to create a towering monsterpeice with intricately layered parts all written at different times.

Mainly because that is unusual now, when a lot of music is generated quickly and without analysis. It makes the pieces that are like this different and different means you stand out.

True! Instant plastic music for total fuckwits....

People in general have become come lazy.. And want everything easily..

No pain.. No gain..

Hd

Posted: **Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:36 pm**

heavensdaw wrote: All the ideas that you have come from you, and maybe some of them on their own don't do much to impress.. But put them in an 'alien' environment and watch them kik ass!

that's a nice little quote to remember right there

The thing I seem to have been learning most of all over time is how important it is to let all these different sounds I spent so much time creating actually having a bit of a chance to be heard on their own at some point

sometimes the best songs can have only 2 tracks in the project

Posted: **Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:49 pm**

Angstrom wrote:On the subject of finding those crappy little experimental songs that are just 4 bars of a kick drum with a 303 on the top, or whatever. We are always going to generate those little snippets.
I started saving these as LiveClips in a folder called "experimental".
That means that the components can be previewed and really easily without loading up a whole song. Usually it will be a tune, melody or bassline that is what I wanted to save. When this is in LiveClip format it is much easier to evaluate, incorporate, or discard.
I also have a wave folder called "mix reminders" which is full of 16 or 32 bar weirdness.

A lot of people see it as a weakness to labour for ages on old songs, but I think in some cases it is beneficial. Sometimes having a bit of time will let you hear what is needed, what the strengths and weaknesses are. Of course some tracks are better just whapped out quickly. But I think it is good to attempt a towering monsterpeice with intricately layered parts all written at different times.

Mainly because that is unusual now, when a lot of music is generated quickly and without analysis. It makes the pieces that are like this different and different means you stand out.

yep I definitely under-utilise the Live clips thing

I agree - I like the idea of working on things for a long time, just sometimes it's just quite difficult to tell if you're flogging a dead horse or not.

I'm changing how I manage it all through this - for all it's faults the file manager is making it possible for projects created from now to be easily opened and worked on in the future (we hope), and Hard drives of hundreds of gigabytes are certainly helping matters too. the old backup CD is a thing of the past now, for all the hype about CDs lasting 200 years when they came out, anything I burned over 5 years ago generally doesn't load

so from now on we'll get used to having everything permanently easily accessible without having to go and find some old scratched to buggery CD and hope the files are readable

Posted: **Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:05 pm**

I advise you to start using LiveClips more.
I didn't use them for a long time and they came as a bit of a revelation when I started to make better use of them.

For those little moments where you just have a bassline in your head but have to leave the studio in 5 minutes - just open up Live and quickly lay it down and fling it into the 'bass' LiveClip folder to discover later.

Or when you are doing a song and come up with a part with is good, but doesn't really contribute to the current song - drag it into the liveclip folder and move on.

It's a great way to free yourself up, and when I started really using it I realised what a brilliant thing it is.

Posted: **Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:02 pm**

whenever I see a track isn't going to be completed in the near future it goes into a folder filled with these types of snippets.

Then I can simply point the live browser to this folder and dig out samples, clips, effect chains, whatever.

So in other words I don't save clips, I save the clips in context, and then I can rip them from that context.

Posted: **Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:13 pm**

neither

START AND FINISH tracks..

it seriously doesn't take that long to make a track unless you spend ages endlessly wandering in circles.. someone made this point to me a year and half ago and i am thankful for it now... to put it bluntly 'just stop fucking about and make tracks'

try and write ur entire tracks in the one sitting if u can with only minor adjustments, going overboard with automation or the final stage done the next day etc..

just make tracks.. lots of them and hurry up!

don't make crappy experimental songs with a 303 and a kickdrum, just make tracks!! make music!! (cant say this enough)

Posted: **Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:29 pm**

sweetjesus wrote:
try and write ur entire tracks in the one sitting if u can with only minor adjustments, going overboard with automation or the final stage done the next day etc..

hmm, I disagree.

in fact I call BULLSHIT
self-satisfied bullshit too.

The idea that if you take a while on a track you are "endlessly wandering in circles" is a fallacy. Also, the idea that quickly writing and finishing a track is better than taking your time over it, or doing it over a long time with some breaks in between is also a fallacy.

I have one song that I started about 6 months ago that I am working on it again today. Back then It was nearly 'done' but I knew there was something wrong with it but couldn't pinpoint how to solve it. After leaving it for a while I realise I had the wrong instrumentation on the intro and I am fixing that today.

I knew that if I left it for a while I would get some distance from it and be able to see the problem clearer.
I do that all the time and it is beneficial for my music.

The history of writing strawberry fields, a long process

1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKNPjhNQXNY
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDoPq6KxWOE
3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61SQMQStK-o

Some songs take time, some don't.

Doing something quickly does not MAKE it good.

Posted: **Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:11 pm**

I've got about 3 finished songs on my HDD, and about 250,000 unfinished ideas, blips, loops, and beats!

Posted: **Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:54 pm**

Angstrom wrote:
sweetjesus wrote:
try and write ur entire tracks in the one sitting if u can with only minor adjustments, going overboard with automation or the final stage done the next day etc..
hmm, I disagree.

in fact I call BULLSHIT
self-satisfied bullshit too.

The idea that if you take a while on a track you are "endlessly wandering in circles" is a fallacy. Also, the idea that quickly writing and finishing a track is better than taking your time over it, or doing it over a long time with some breaks in between is also a fallacy.

I have one song that I started about 6 months ago that I am working on it again today. Back then It was nearly 'done' but I knew there was something wrong with it but couldn't pinpoint how to solve it. After leaving it for a while I realise I had the wrong instrumentation on the intro and I am fixing that today.

I knew that if I left it for a while I would get some distance from it and be able to see the problem clearer.
I do that all the time and it is beneficial for my music.

The history of writing strawberry fields, a long process

1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKNPjhNQXNY
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDoPq6KxWOE
3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61SQMQStK-o

Some songs take time, some don't.

Doing something quickly does not MAKE it good.

funny I see both sides equally here

totally understand spending years on something, but I also understand how when you are into a vibe then you just do it and don't think too much about it

some day sit flows really quickly, other days you just chip away a little at a time

Posted: **Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:19 pm**

IMO, just about every permutation and combination of notes, instruments, sounds, chord changes, etc has already been written. All that's left nowadays is to regurgitate what's already been done.

And with the ability to 'create' music easier than it's ever been, and getting cheaper and easier daily, we'll continue to be overloaded with crap.

Ableton Forum

thought for the day - revisit old tracks or start new?

thought for the day - revisit old tracks or start new?