Ableton Forum

Hi all,

I've been using live as a daw since ver 4, but now would like to start using it for DJing.
I'm looking for a usb or firewire Dj mixer with a built in audio interface and midi controllers? (an all in one box)

I'm on a bit of a budget. The vestax VMC100 looks like the kind of thing i mean but is fairly pricey at £345. ( http://www.dv247.com/invt/51852/ )

Any recommendations would be very much appreciated, so thanks in advance.

Simon

TAPPY42 wrote:Hi all,

Any recommendations would be very much appreciated, so thanks in advance.

Simon

I would highly recommend that you stay away from all in one solutions. First the whole is often less than the sum of the pieces, and then they're also married together You can't take the controller along to somebody else's studio to jam without lugging the whole box, same goes for the card if that's all you need. And of course if one breaks both are shot.

I would suggest the FaderFox DJ2 which you can get for 169£ at Dolphin, and then you have the best DJ controller on the market - at least in my opinion.

Check out http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop ... ct_id/8780

The DJ2 is also pure MIDI for which you will thank your lucky stars down thr road. You'll never outgrow the controller, but if you keep making computer music for a while you'll want bigger and better cards quite quickly.

I actually bought my FaderFox at Dolphin, I was in the Liverpool area for work and went by their warehouse on the way to the airport before coming back to Germany where I leave.

Once you hold it in your hand you'll see immediately why so many people swear by the FaderFox products. The build quality is fantastic. If you've ever used one of those big clunky plastic Hercules/Numark/Behringer/Vestax boxes you'll feel the difference immediately. Here's the website of the guys that make them: http://faderfox.de/

They also have controllers specifically for Live, but for what you do as a club DJ I'd recommend the one made for DJing. I've used it with Live, which works fine as well, but it's designed for beatmatching and mixing.

If you go that route, then you can use whatever constitutes the rest of your budget to get a soundcard.

I've been using a Novation Nio 2|4 the last few months. It's the right combination of features and cheap. If you're going to be playing clubs, there are certain fundamental problems about putting expensive computer equipment in environments that are regularly bathed in beer and bodily fluids. So it's nice that at the interface was only 200€, I guess what, something like 130 GBP?

One great thing about the Nio for DJ work is that the master volume controls are easily accessible on the top, so I have the headphone *mix* on the faderfox next to the gain where it belongs but headphone volume as its own easily accessible knob on the Nio. The all-in-one DJ boxes I've seen around tend to have headphone volume somewhere hard to reach. around the side or even that back.

As a computer DJ you probably use your headphones about 10% as much as a guy with decks, if that, so that's been really convenient not to have to fumble around in the dark trying to get rid of the crackling. The Nio also has a bit fat strip of rubber like a corrugated shoe sole on the bottom which is fantastic so it doesn't rattle when the sub is kicking and doesn't slide around if the surface isn't level.

Another thing I've loved about the card is the clever routing system, you can make decisions in hardware how to route the 4 outs 2 ins that it has total. So you can double the output in 1&2 to come out of 3&4 as well. That makes it much easier to record your set. I don't trust the stability of doubling the amount of HDD read/write on the machine I play on, so I don't record straight to disk.

Soundwise, you can go anywhere from the cheapest 90 quid card to a whole lot more and be pretty happy. That's sort of a mid range card, I love it because I don't have to worry about it. A buddy of mine takes his Multiface to clubs regularly which does make one a bit more paranoid. Maybe someone else has another opinion, but outside of features (primarily the number of channels in and out) I don't hear a big difference between any of the decent cards in the sub 400€ range. (i.e., not counting things like behringer and numark, which are right out. and maudio is out on account of drivers.)

Anyway, hope this was helps you, have a good one, ping if you have questions, happy to chat,

Chris

Edit: I should mention that I don't work for either of those two companies - these are just products that have been excellent.

+1.

What he said.

You're MUCH better off getting separate units. Sounds like you'll need an interface, a mixer, and a controller.

You could get all 3 for the same price as the Vestax VCI.

For the money, I'd go for these:

Behringer BCR2000
U46SE Bargain! 3 Stereo outs! (I have the older U46DJ - I can't fault it).
3-Channel mixer Using a 3-cahnnel mixer along with the u46SE gives you the option of using all 3-channels as channels in Live. This would then allow you to use the mixers built in PFL (Pree-Fader Listen) for cuing. OR you could use Lives Cue/PFL with one of the stereo outs from the U46SE. It's all about flexibility.

What you need to aim for is flexibility. With a single unit, you can be limited by the layout. With the BCR/BCF you have scope to try out different set-ups. It's a shame to limit Live by using a dedicated unit. Live is SO flexible, and your control set-up needs to reflect that.

Patch wrote: 3-Channel mixer Using a 3-cahnnel mixer along with the u46SE gives you the option of using all 3-channels as channels in Live.

...

What you need to aim for is flexibility.

Thanks for the +1 so I'll send it right back! Good point on the Mixer, I had assumed he was going to do that in software.

Tappy, that's a major choice in how you operate. I prefer to have the mix generated on my computer, and then my one stereo out is the finished mixed signal and the other is my cue signal.

What you can also do, as Patch says, is get an external mixer. Then you have two stereo tracks coming out of the computer and mix them on the hardware and return the cue signal from there.

My personal preference is definitely with everything in software. I'm a guy, I can't multitask, so I like to have everything on the screen.

As far as software goes, Traktor is the industry standard, but you'd probably want to get the equipment first so you can work on your skills and use MIxxx as software.

Or, again, you can go the hardware route. It doesn't come naturally to me having separate "control centers" playing the tracks on the computer and and mixing them in hardware, but a lot of DJ's that have been mixing on decks for years don't feel quite right on the computer.

It's a personal preference thing, but, as Patch said, flexibility is the highest priority. One always ends up kit like this more for stuff it wasn't made for that what it was made for, so the more stuff it can do the better ;p

Cheers,

Chris

Thanks Chris and Patch so much for your quick and helful replies. The more i thought about the single unit the more i realised its drawbacks, so your advice has helped me decide against it..

I checked out all of those links and the gear all looks very interesting indeed.

I dont think i'll need an extra mixer (i already have one anyway) I just want to tweak Live's parameters via midi and have a stereo pair output from a card plus a headphone cue .

Having not really dj'd with Live before, the more flexibilty from the start certainly seems to make sense until i find my preferred set-up.

Cheers Again - off shopping i go!

Simon

If you are planning to DJ with Live, I'd highly recommend the FaderFox Live DJ module - these controllers are fantastic.

New Hercules might be coming from same factory in china as Vestax, very well build, smart design and the Virtual DJ software allows even video clips playing- the best for that . Dont know about sound, tried it only at the Musik Messe, really like the feel of the wheels (with brakes). There are audio inputs so you could use decks, really all in one solution.
Nothing like Faderfox. Might seem expensive first but they wont break as all the chinaplasticware does. For the card Echo is the best for size, price and sound. Though tempted by all in one solution too, I agree with other posts, specially that Faderfox and soundcard wont weight more then Vestax or Hercules.

The Faderfox DJ1 controller, broadly designed for Traktor, works a treat with Live too, some great starter dj templates too, with effects and parameters assigned. Been using Faderfox with an NI Audio Kontrol 1 for a while and it's a killer combo of size, features and generally very robust build and operation. AK1 of course acts as as midi interface for the FF too.

Yeah, this one is made specially for Live DJ work, I use my DJ2 with Traktor primarily as well.

Though these little guys are incredibly tempting.

I like the look of the NI audio kontrol as an interface, but that might eat into my budget possibly ruling out the faderfox controller. The faderfox may be more than i need anyway and was wondering if anyone had tried out these new Novation Nocturns? £69 guvnor..
http://www.novationmusic.com/products/m ... l/nocturn/


*edit* -just seen the other post about the Nocturn... Sorry!

How about the M-Audio X-Session Pro? about the same price i see?

I have been using the pioneer DJM 800, for about a year now I guess as a controller to help integrate it into my dj sets and first I had a lot of trouble trying to map everything to knobs and faders but I found that if your will it let a bit of control go you can find much more creative way to route sound through ableton and make the mixer work for you instead of finding just the right controller to do everything.

But I am a bit of a brat, and I cant stand the idea of puttering about playing a full set in ableton. I still like the functionality and sound quality of the mixer. Just my 2 cents