Ableton Forum

anyone else notice that the board has been sending info to google-analytics.com as you browse from page to page ?

what's that all about then ?
www.google-analytics.com forwards you to http://www.google.com/analytics/
which reads:



The New Google Analytics

Google Analytics has been re-designed to help you learn even more about where your visitors come from and how they interact with your site.
Discover. Share. Act.

The new Google Analytics makes it easy to improve your results online. Write better ads, strengthen your marketing initiatives, and create higher-converting websites. Google Analytics is free to all advertisers, publishers, and site owners.

dam bots

Firefox add-on -> NoScript -> Forbid google-analytics.com

cool, I think it's working.
it's blocking two scripts on the main page, 5 when viewing a thread, and 4 whilst typing this.


what's ableton doing with the data anyways, i wonder ?

to better reach their target market, I'd guess.

Google Analytics isn't some evil cookie where Google itself is trying to milk your SSN and medical records out of you; it's just really nice free stats for webmasters. I use it on my business' site, and it provides very useful information to help push one's site toward better rankings in search engines, better browser compatibility, better marketing techniques, etc.

a lot of web hosts provide backend programs that harvest similar information, and the only reason you don't notice is that it doesn't have to send the info back to the mothership.

now, of course there's no guarantee that Google isn't looking at this information themselves to gauge trends (and they probably are, frankly)...but if you're really that concerned about them knowing what browser you're using, what link you jumped to a page from, what keywords you searched with to find the page, and other such Highly Classified Information, maybe the best course of action is just to have your ISP cancel your account. There are other info-gleaning techniques out there that are *actual* threats.

porfiry wrote:to better reach their target market, I'd guess.

Google Analytics isn't some evil cookie where Google itself is trying to milk your SSN and medical records out of you; it's just really nice free stats for webmasters. I use it on my business' site, and it provides very useful information to help push one's site toward better rankings in search engines, better browser compatibility, better marketing techniques, etc.

a lot of web hosts provide backend programs that harvest similar information, and the only reason you don't notice is that it doesn't have to send the info back to the mothership.

now, of course there's no guarantee that Google isn't looking at this information themselves to gauge trends (and they probably are, frankly)...but if you're really that concerned about them knowing what browser you're using, what link you jumped to a page from, what keywords you searched with to find the page, and other such Highly Classified Information, maybe the best course of action is just to have your ISP cancel your account. There are other info-gleaning techniques out there that are *actual* threats.

There are plenty of people, me included, that view Google Analytics as evil. It gives a potentially dangerous amount of information to Google, which could very easily be used in a way you wouldn't be happy about.

For example - if you've got any Google accounts they can use the info from Analytics to match actual page views to you personally, via your ip address. You might not mind them knowing that you visit the Ableton website, but you might mind with some websites.

They could also use the information to target advertising a lot more accurately. If they know you visit the Ableton website they could target you for advertising for Steinberg products for example. Again, not a major problem but it crosses the line as far as I'm concerned.

Its all made a lot worse by this happening in the background with most people being totally unaware about the information that is being shared.

jonny72 wrote: There are plenty of people, me included, that view Google Analytics as evil. It gives a potentially dangerous amount of information to Google, which could very easily be used in a way you wouldn't be happy about.

Then don't you mean "potentially, easily evil"? Just having the ability to do evil doesn't mean you are doing it.
Although google makes more or less all its money tracking people around the web - or perhaps even BECAUSE of that - I am so certain that it's governed by a very firm set of ethical guidelines.

Just a thought.

Machinate wrote: I am so certain that it's governed by a very firm set of ethical guidelines.

personally I would never make that assumption about any large corporation these days

forge wrote:

Machinate wrote: I am so certain that it's governed by a very firm set of ethical guidelines.

personally I would never make that assumption about any large corporation these days

and why not? Surely we leave our lives in the hands of major corporations all the time!

So, do you have a generator, or do you leave your power in the hands of a major corporation? Thought so.

porfiry wrote:...but if you're really that concerned about them knowing what browser you're using, what link you jumped to a page from, what keywords you searched with to find the page, and other such Highly Classified Information, maybe the best course of action is just to have your ISP cancel your account. There are other info-gleaning techniques out there that are *actual* threats.

on the off-chance you weren't being facetious...canceling my ISP account seems a bit drastic when I only need to use a simple addon like 'NoScript', or just keep an eye on where I'm surfing etc. You make it sound like that's over-the-top, it's just common sense to me.

Annnnd you're using google-analytics.com yourself for your business orientated website.

Machinate wrote:

jonny72 wrote: There are plenty of people, me included, that view Google Analytics as evil. It gives a potentially dangerous amount of information to Google, which could very easily be used in a way you wouldn't be happy about.

Then don't you mean "potentially, easily evil"? Just having the ability to do evil doesn't mean you are doing it.
Although google makes more or less all its money tracking people around the web - or perhaps even BECAUSE of that - I am so certain that it's governed by a very firm set of ethical guidelines.

Just a thought.

when did you become so naive ?
seriously ?
I agree with jonny72 that google-analytics.com is inherently evil, and potentially dangerous. Same goes for all covert marketing mechanisms, irregardless of how the information is used. The fact it's collected & stored WITHOUT my consent is evil enough, what's supposedly done with the data is another thing. Besides, what's supposedly done with the stored data means little-to-nothing when you consider the very real threat of 'function creep'. Just because they're using the database for one thing today doesn't mean they can't use it for something else tomorrow. it is the most dangerous aspect of covert, unsolicited collection of personal data. Questionnaires and surveys taken with absolute consent and optional anonymity are the only moral ways of data collection, for whatever supposed purpose.

and you trust google ? emphatically it seems ?
fucking x3

Machinate wrote:

forge wrote:

Machinate wrote: I am so certain that it's governed by a very firm set of ethical guidelines.

personally I would never make that assumption about any large corporation these days

and why not? Surely we leave our lives in the hands of major corporations all the time!

So, do you have a generator, or do you leave your power in the hands of a major corporation? Thought so.

poor analogy, considering the discussion/thread.

again, I'd just like to note that the only two people in this thread who are NOT irked by this google-analytics development, or are in favour of it, are the very people who benefit from google-analytics in their own businesses. I doubt that's a co-inky-dink.

And I thought I was paranoid

Saving points at gas station/supermarket = Customer buying habit tracking
Something people have been doing since stamp cards were invented.

International Passport = Global people tracking
A plane manifest can always be recalled.

The point being, tabs are being kept. Wether its obvious as google (who uses the data to make sure you get the right ads in front of you) or not so obvious such as personal ID cards endorsed by Bill Gates.
Its funny to see how much people actually yanked the microchip out of their ID card.

Google Analytics does virtually the same thing as a page counter (which also collects a log afaik), with the added bonus of having some nice graphs.
You think this stuff is unique?
Even on this phpbb forum, the admin can see which page you come from and which page you're going to. Stored for every visit.

Ableton uses it to see which sections of their website generate more interest.
Look at the links in the newsletter, they are special links that go thru some logging system first, So Ableton knows how many time a link in their newsletter was clicked.

Righteous Indignation...

I'd like to see a big prominent "We're using Google Analytics" on the forum index. That way, people can choose whether to browse or not based on their own privacy preferences.

In the end, server logs can yield a lot of the same information and so the Abe's can probably get all the same stats from that source. Google having it is what bugs me.

b0unce wrote:again, I'd just like to note that the only two people in this thread who are NOT irked by this google-analytics development, or are in favour of it, are the very people who benefit from google-analytics in their own businesses. I doubt that's a co-inky-dink.

So exactly how is having a nice graph of page visits a "benefit for business".
You do realize almost every blog has one of these in the admin panel, right?

hoffman2k wrote: Saving points at gas station/supermarket = Customer buying habit tracking
Something people have been doing since stamp cards were invented.

Optional/ requires consent.

hoffman2k wrote: International Passport = Global people tracking
A plane manifest can always be recalled.

enforced by law/requires consent.

hoffman2k wrote: The point being, tabs are being kept. Wether its obvious as google (who uses the data to make sure you get the right ads in front of you) or not so obvious such as personal ID cards endorsed by Bill Gates.
Its funny to see how much people actually yanked the microchip out of their ID card.

The point being I have not given my consent to ableton OR google to collect my data via google-analytics.com, for whatever SUPPOSED purpose, and they have not notified me or the board...why not if it's so benign ? Simple answer, most common people aren't for it. [A] I definitely don't want to give anyone the power & data to foist any more of their products on me function creep. the data is used to target ADS today, but there is NOTHING to say they can't or won't use the data for something else tomorro.

hoffman2k wrote: Google Analytics does virtually the same thing as a page counter (which also collects a log afaik), with the added bonus of having some nice graphs.
You think this stuff is unique?
Even on this phpbb forum, the admin can see which page you come from and which page you're going to. Stored for every visit.

let's not mince words or functions here. Use a page counter, if that's what you want.
Whilst using graphs to display visitor locations might not be unique, it is certainly worrying when a HUGE entity like google are the ones collecting & possessing the data. Passing user info on to the piddling webmaster in the form of a few graphs is just a small price to pay for such juicy data.

hoffman2k wrote: Ableton uses it to see which sections of their website generate more interest.
Look at the links in the newsletter, they are special links that go thru some logging system first, So Ableton knows how many time a link in their newsletter was clicked.

ableton collecting the data is one thing, google collecting it VIA ableton is another.

ok, so that's THREE online retailers defending the google-analytics system. The co-inky-dink continues.

Not a coinky dink - Just you who found another topic to be a bitch about.

Good thing you're safe though. That plugin thats supposed to be protecting you now, all it does is confirm to google that you're using firefox

And the Electronic ID is mandatory... You get fined for not having it on you.

The funny thing off course is the fact that you want to play this one out as a "big corporation" collecting your data. While you're going to be typing on an OS (regardless which one) that sends/asks update info and such from the manufacturer on regular basis.
Not to mention that all your medical data is stored on a server that could always be hacked. Along with police records, school records and work history...
Hell, my medical records are on a chip like my ID.

This topic is just a whole lot of getting pissy about nothing. "Businesses" install it to see which sections of their website are more popular. Thats pretty much the only argument you have.

Man, if you're worried about google.. Research what the MPAA, Sony, Waves, Cyber Police and copyright infringement bounty hunters can do to collect your data.
Install something like Peer Guardian to get an idea of how many corporations are trying to access your computer each and every single day..