Ableton Forum

Is it possible to side chain the gate in Ableton 6+? Im looking at making a move from Logic, I just need to tie up a few things.

How do you find Ableton's workflow relative to something like Logic/Cubase? Do you find it more "musical" or creative? If so, why?

Thanks!

Native sidechaining wasn't included in Live until version 7 so the if you're using version 6 people usually use third party plugs that have that included.

One simple answer as to why Live is better for work flow and creativity is that for a lot of things you can do with 1 step in Live it takes 3 or 4 in Logic. A lot of things in Logic are buried in pulldown menus and you have to figure out which one. In Live the options are in obvious right click menus from the source.

I've tried working on composing in Logic and it's been a mess for me by comparison. Some of the things I consider basic functionality I can't figure out at all in Logic and I can't find the function listed in the manual even when I try to look for it under like 2 or 3 different keywords I think I would find them under. I know different DAWs use different terminology but it shouldn't be that extreme.

beats me wrote:I've tried working on composing in Logic and it's been a mess for me by comparison. Some of the things I consider basic functionality I can't figure out at all in Logic and I can't find the function listed in the manual even when I try to look for it under like 2 or 3 different keywords I think I would find them under. I know different DAWs use different terminology but it shouldn't be that extreme.

Can you give some examples?

I'm sure some Logic experts that could correct me here because I didn't spend tons of time trying to sort things out but....

For one there's no time stretching so in regards to audio when you record something than that is the tempo you are stuck with.

When using the loop function in Logic to make a part repeat across the entire track you can't just go in and cut out sections in the middle. There's some elaborate thing involving start and stop markers. I also thought I could maybe flatten the loop to an audio track and cut parts out that way but couldn't figure that out.

If there's a section in the middle of an arrangement of multiple tracks that I want to copy and repeat right after it plays all I have to do in Live is highlight that section and choose duplicate time. Done. In Logic I couldn't figure out anything like that or any reference to it in the manual.

Even something as simple as changing a track name you can't just double click or right click on the name and change it. You have to select the track and then go to some pulldown menu in the middle of the screen and find the change track name option. That may seem like a stupid complaint but we're talking about work flow here and being able to double click on a track name and change it seems like the most obvious method to do it. Logic is far from obvious on a lot of things.

Keep both! (or are you using Logic prior to version 8? in which case you should upgrade!)

Logic Studio + Ableton 7 - you can't go wrong with that combination.

beats me wrote:For one there's no time stretching so in regards to audio when you record something than that is the tempo you are stuck with.

--> 'Time and Pitch Machine' (sure in Ableton it's easier though).

beats me wrote:When using the loop function in Logic to make a part repeat across the entire track you can't just go in and cut out sections in the middle.

--> 'Convert Loops to Real Copies' then delete the unwanted regions.

beats me wrote:If there's a section in the middle of an arrangement of multiple tracks that I want to copy and repeat right after it plays all I have to do in Live is highlight that section and choose duplicate time.

--> 'Repeat Section' works just like 'Duplicate Time' in live.

beats me wrote:Even something as simple as changing a track name you can't just double click or right click on the name and change it. You have to select the track and then go to some pulldown menu in the middle of the screen and find the change track name option. That may seem like a stupid complaint but we're talking about work flow here and being able to double click on a track name and change it seems like the most obvious method to do it. Logic is far from obvious on a lot of things.

--> Yes you can simply double click a track name to change it, well at least you can in Logic Pro

beats me wrote:Even something as simple as changing a track name you can't just double click or right click on the name and change it.

Double click is exactly how you do it. In Logic 8, anyway.

Well, I'm new to Logic a definite rookie for sure. But so far I'm thinking a few things are easier in Logic. Groove/Swing quantize. Customization of the work area. Multiple takes/comping. So a combination of Live/Logic seems to be the future for me.

To the original question. Live 7 has sidechaining of Gates, Compressors, Filter envelope... From any track. So far I've only managed to sidechain from AUXes or physical ports in Logic. So 1-0 to Live. The workflow and the UI in Live is more inspiring and quick to me, but of course Logic is deeper - way deeper.

So if you can bare having two hosts - I think you'll be rewarded. I'm hoping I will be, since I got Logic just last week. But I would also be just fine with Live only.

.m

I knew I would get some Logic lessons in this thread. I should bookmark it.

Weird about the double click to rename thing. I never got it to work for me and I'd sit there and click away on the name forever in disbelief and it is Logic Pro 8. God knows if I fire it up now it will work.

photonal wrote:Keep both! (or are you using Logic prior to version 8? in which case you should upgrade!)

Logic Studio + Ableton 7 - you can't go wrong with that combination.

beats me wrote:For one there's no time stretching so in regards to audio when you record something than that is the tempo you are stuck with.

--> 'Time and Pitch Machine' (sure in Ableton it's easier though).

beats me wrote:When using the loop function in Logic to make a part repeat across the entire track you can't just go in and cut out sections in the middle.

--> 'Convert Loops to Real Copies' then delete the unwanted regions.

beats me wrote:If there's a section in the middle of an arrangement of multiple tracks that I want to copy and repeat right after it plays all I have to do in Live is highlight that section and choose duplicate time.

--> 'Repeat Section' works just like 'Duplicate Time' in live.

beats me wrote:Even something as simple as changing a track name you can't just double click or right click on the name and change it. You have to select the track and then go to some pulldown menu in the middle of the screen and find the change track name option. That may seem like a stupid complaint but we're talking about work flow here and being able to double click on a track name and change it seems like the most obvious method to do it. Logic is far from obvious on a lot of things.

--> Yes you can simply double click a track name to change it, well at least you can in Logic Pro

I agree re: Ableton & Logic together = a killer DAW. How are you incorporating Ableton into Logic? Id still want to mix in Logic. Im really interested to hear how other people are using Logic & Ableton together.

So what about swing functions? Iv heard this isnt possible in Ableton? This is a major issue for me, I use swing alot. can you make groove templates like you can in Logic? I was thnking of getting an MPC to use with Ableton just to be ably to swing the drums, but what about everything else? Iv got guru as well, however the MPC swing templates are the best by far.

Pollyrythm wrote:So what about swing functions? Iv heard this isnt possible in Ableton? This is a major issue for me, I use swing alot. can you make groove templates like you can in Logic? I was thnking of getting an MPC to use with Ableton just to be ably to swing the drums, but what about everything else? Iv got guru as well, however the MPC swing templates are the best by far.

Swing is a big issue for people here. I never use it in either DAW, but Live has it's own swing function and no way to import swing....

I can't vouch for which one is better, I like Live Logic and Digital Performer, but hate them for various reasons as well. Live is the main one that's set up well for live use, and has great bussing, it's MIDI and audio editing capabilities are so so compared to DP, Logic etc. but most of the functions are things you rarely use, like Strip Silence etc.

Pollyrythm wrote:
I agree re: Ableton & Logic together = a killer DAW. How are you incorporating Ableton into Logic? Id still want to mix in Logic. Im really interested to hear how other people are using Logic & Ableton together.

create sounds in logic, export 24bit into and arrange in ableton!

So what about working with mono tracks? How is it done in Ableton? I tend to keep a lot on mono, its easier to control.

I dont know what to here. I kinda like the idea of creating sounds in Logic & exporting to Ableton, however thats not really intuitive is it & it kinda defeats the purpose by creating more work. I just want something that allows me to be more creative & to be able concentrate more on writing music as apposed to f#cking around on fiddly bits.

Ableton seems to be a real writers tool & logic has the heavy weight production muscle. So together they're the perfect match. So whats the best way to use them together? your views here would be good.

So with swing, live HAS swing features, it just doesnt allow you to create groove templates. Is that right?

Pollyrythm wrote:So with swing, live HAS swing features, it just doesnt allow you to create groove templates. Is that right?

Correct, Sir!

Unless you wanna get fiddly with the Slice to Midi and use that timing. Not anything I've been into, though.

.m