Salvia

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madhattared
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Salvia

Post by madhattared » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:53 am

Its not so often the NYTimes runs a full article on a hallucinogen which is legal, so i was curious if there was anyone on the forum who could document their experiences with this divinorum.


Popularity of a Hallucinogen May Thwart Its Medical Uses
By KEVIN SACK and BRENT McDONALD

DALLAS — With a friend videotaping, 27-year-old Christopher Lenzini of Dallas took a hit of Salvia divinorum, regarded as the world’s most potent hallucinogenic herb, and soon began to imagine, he said, that he was in a boat with little green men. Mr. Lenzini quickly collapsed to the floor and dissolved into convulsive laughter.

When he posted the video on YouTube this summer, friends could not get enough. “It’s just funny to see a friend act like a total idiot,” he said, “so everybody loved it.”

Until a decade ago, the use of salvia was largely limited to those seeking revelation under the tutelage of Mazatec shamans in its native Oaxaca, Mexico.

Today, this mind-altering member of the mint family is broadly available for lawful sale online and in head shops across the United States.

Though older Americans typically have never heard of salvia, the psychoactive sage has become something of a phenomenon among this country’s thrill-seeking youth.

More than 5,000 YouTube videos — equal parts “Jackass” and “Up in Smoke” — document their journeys into rubber-legged incoherence.

Some of the videos have been viewed half a million times.

Yet these very images that have helped popularize salvia may also hasten its demise and undermine the promising research into its possible medical uses.

Pharmacologists who believe salvia could open new frontiers for the treatment of addiction, depression and pain fear that its criminalization would make it burdensome to obtain and store the plant, and difficult to gain government permission for tests on human subjects. In state after state, however, including here in Texas, the YouTube videos have become Exhibit A in legislative efforts to regulate salvia. This year, Florida made possession or sale a felony punishable by 15 years in prison. California took a gentler approach by making it a misdemeanor to sell or distribute to minors.

“When you see it, well, it sure makes a believer out of you,” said Representative Charles Anderson of Waco, a Republican state lawmaker who is sponsoring one of several bills to ban salvia in Texas.

When the federal government this year published its first estimates of salvia use, the data astonished many: some 1.8 million people had tried it in their lifetimes, including 750,000 in the previous year. Among males 18 to 25, where consumption is heaviest, nearly 3 percent reported using salvia in the previous year, making it twice as prevalent as LSD and nearly as popular as Ecstasy.

Recent studies at college campuses on both coasts have yielded estimates as high as 7 percent. The herb’s presence on military ships and bases has prompted enough concern about readiness that the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology was asked to develop the first urinalysis for salvia and is now testing 50 samples a month.

Though research is young and little is known about long-term effects, there are no studies suggesting that salvia is addictive or its users prone to overdose or abuse. Indeed, a salvia experience can be so intense, and at times so unsettling, that many try it just once, and even devotees use it sparingly.

Reports of salvia-related emergency room admissions are virtually nonexistent, likely because its effects typically vanish in just a few minutes.

With little data at its disposal, the Drug Enforcement Administration has spent more than a decade studying whether to add salvia to its list of controlled substances, as is the case in several European and Asian countries. In the meantime, 13 states and several local governments have banned or otherwise regulated the plant and its chemically enhanced extracts.

Known on the street by nicknames like Sally D and Magic Mint, salvia can have vastly different effects depending on dose, potency and the mindset and tolerance of its users, according to researchers and experienced smokers (though bitter, it can also be chewed or consumed as a tincture). Dozens of online vendors sell mild extracts for as little as $5 a gram; the strongest, at up to 100 times the potency of the raw leaf, sell for more than $50.

Users often report a sudden dissociation from self, as if traveling through time. The experience tends to be solitary, introspective and sometimes fearful: a 2003 bulletin from the Department of Justice concluded that salvia was unlikely ever to become a party drug.

“I’ve used several psychedelics, and salvia’s definitely the most intense experience that I’ve had,” said Brian D. Arthur, founder of Mazatec Garden, which sells salvia and other herbs online from a nondescript house in Houston. “Salvia takes you out of the world and puts you in a different place.”

Regular users say it can be a restorative, even spiritual tonic, and recall their visualizations with precision.

One night in August, Nathan K., a 29-year-old father of three from Waco, stretched back in his blue recliner and took a long, purposeful drag from his pipe. As he closed his eyes, he found himself transported into a dream state, he said, as if drifting down a rain forest river. A beatific smile spread lightly across his face.

The effects dissipated after five minutes, leaving him with a sense of well-being. It was, he said, as if a masseuse had rubbed out the knots in his psyche. “Just a very gentle letting go, a very gentle relaxing,” Nathan said on the condition that he not be fully identified.

Those who support the contemplative use of salvia disdain the YouTubers for disrespecting the herb’s power and purpose.

“They’re not really taking it as a tool to explore their inner psyche,” said Daniel J. Siebert, a Californian who pioneered the production of salvia extracts. “They’re just taking it to get messed up.”

At a legislative hearing near Dallas in August, Mr. Anderson argued that by not banning salvia, governments were communicating that it is benign. He noted that Internet purveyors advise that salvia should be used only with a “sober sitter,” and said its legal status might encourage experimentation among some who would never consider a back-alley drug deal.

He also told his colleagues about a video that depicts a salvia user behind the wheel of a car. (In fact, that video, “Driving on Salvia,” is one in a series of popular parodies featuring Erik J. Hoffstad, a production assistant in Los Angeles. In the two-and-a-half minute film, Mr. Hoffstad smokes salvia from a bong in a parked car — his friends made sure he did not have the real keys — and then freaks out when a cat unexpectedly pounces on the windshield.)

“What we really worry about,” Mr. Anderson said at the hearing, “is youngsters doing this and then getting in a vehicle or getting on a motorcycle or jumping in a pool somewhere.”

There have been rare claims of salvia-related deaths, but the links are speculative.

In March, Mario G. Argenziano, a 42-year-old restaurant manager from Yonkers, shot himself in the face 10 minutes after smoking salvia, a police report quoted his wife, Anna Argenziano, as saying. Ms. Argenziano said her husband, a gun collector and marksman, retrieved a handgun from a bedside table to show friends, then pointed it at himself and acted confused.

“Before the shot was fired, he was laughing,” Ms. Argenziano said. She said her husband had no psychiatric history; Yonkers police said they could not determine salvia’s role.

In 2006, Brett Chidester, a 17-year-old described by his family as a model student with no history of mental illness, committed suicide in Delaware at a time when he was apparently smoking salvia several times a week. Entries in his journal, provided by his mother, suggest that his salvia use influenced feelings that “our existence in general is pointless.”

Several months later, a medical examiner changed Mr. Chidester’s death certificate to list his salvia use as a contributing factor. Delaware’s Legislature immediately banned salvia by passing a bill it called Brett’s Law.

Such laws could pose a substantial burden to researchers at institutions like Harvard and the University of Kansas who are convinced that salvia’s active compound, Salvinorin A, holds great promise and will aid in the development of new lines of pain and psychiatric medications.

In 2002, Dr. Bryan L. Roth, now of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, discovered that Salvinorin A, perhaps uniquely, stimulates a single receptor in the brain, the kappa opioid receptor. LSD, by comparison, stimulates about 50 receptors. Dr. Roth said Salvinorin A was the strongest hallucinogen gram for gram found in nature.

Though Salvinorin A, because of its debilitating effects, is unlikely to become a pharmaceutical agent itself, its chemistry may enable the discovery of valuable derivatives. “If we can find a drug that blocks salvia’s effects, there’s good evidence it could treat brain disorders including depression, schizophrenia, Alzheimer’s, maybe even H.I.V.,” Dr. Roth said.

Many scientists believe salvia should be regulated like alcohol or tobacco, but worry that criminalization would encumber their research before it bears fruit.

“We have this incredible new compound, the first in its class; it absolutely has potential medical use, and here we’re talking about throttling it because some people get intoxicated on it,” said Dr. John Mendelson, a pharmacologist at the California Pacific Medical Center Research Institute who, with federal financing, is studying salvia’s impact on humans. “It couldn’t be more foolish from a business point of view.”

Though states are moving quickly, Bertha K. Madras, a deputy director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, said federal regulators remained in a quandary.

“The risk of any drug that is intoxicating is high,” Dr. Madras said. “You’re one car ride away from an event that could be life-altering. But in terms of really good studies, there is just very little. So what do you do? How do you make policy in the absence of good hard cold information?”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/09/us/09 ... nted=print
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OvertoneZero
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Post by OvertoneZero » Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:58 am

As I always say, if you're going to go mindtripping to the 5th dimension, lock up yo' guns.

Tarekith
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Post by Tarekith » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:27 am

I hate Salvia. I love hallucinogens. But Salvia was just too weird for me, it was the first time I never really felt in control of my buzz, and not in a goo way. Very creepy stuff, I'd rather have shrooms or cid anyday.

silverlulu
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Post by silverlulu » Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:58 am

my girlfriend's dad sent her a massive package of it. it's pretty fucked up shit really.

i hit about 5 bongs of it and didn't feel much cos i don't think it was that powerful. but you can get different strengths. when it's powerful it can have really rudeboy effects. sometimes more powerful than shrooms/acid. great thing about it is that it only lasts about 5 mins and then you are cool again. so if you're having a bad trip all you have to do is hang in there till it's done.

i prefer shrooms tho.
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silverlulu
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Post by silverlulu » Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:06 am

it's fucking typical that people are trying to make it illegal.

a few idiots that can't handle the drug, get stupid and end up cutting off their dick ruin it for everyone else. if you smoke salvia and think you can fly, jump off a cliff and die... GOOD!

morons give law makers all the ammunition they need to fuck legends like me.
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john gordon
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Post by john gordon » Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:17 am

yeah i tried the stuff a few times.pretty crazy shit,but i wouldnt do it again.

ethios4
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Post by ethios4 » Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:37 am

It is illegal in Oklahoma now, thanks to youtube videos of people smoking. I would characterize the experience as "extremely weird". 4 of the 5 people I know who have had the 20x extract have had bad experiences, the other person absolutely loves it. I turned pleasantly into a desk.

ollyb303
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Post by ollyb303 » Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:10 am

I had some 100x extract at the 2001 Dutchtek.It was mental. Not unpleasant, but not what I would call pleasant either. Just crazy. DMT is much nicer.
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duluxdog
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Post by duluxdog » Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:16 am

You have to heat it very hot to get anything out of it, for anyone thinking of trying it.

silverlulu
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Post by silverlulu » Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:32 am

^ interesting i didn't i know that. thanks.
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naturemorte
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Post by naturemorte » Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:41 am

also, it's important to have a sitter as it is possible to injure yourself if you do it alone.

by the way, not fun.

funknotik
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Post by funknotik » Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:24 am

I tried it twice and it didn't do a damn thing. That was like two years ago I no longer care to try it again. But yeah I heard of people tripping pretty hard on it, didn't seem to work for me. Shrooms are better...
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ubermnd
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Post by ubermnd » Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:27 am

looks great as far as I can tell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS4tvvFNIns

forge
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Post by forge » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:13 am

Tarekith wrote:I hate Salvia. I love hallucinogens. But Salvia was just too weird for me, it was the first time I never really felt in control of my buzz, and not in a goo way. Very creepy stuff, I'd rather have shrooms or cid anyday.
+11111

probably the worst chemical experience ever

actually I think I maybe wrote about it on this forum a few years ago....

{edit:here it is:}

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 8234#58234
forge wrote:
Martyn wrote:Hey Forge.... have you checked out that little QT "Druqs" movie on Aphex's website 8O Absolutely phucked up!! That guy has it NAILED already.

:lol: I just looked at the video and it's nice to see somebody else out there has been to that place. He looked to me like he'd taken salvia and that's what it did to me.

Any of you kids out there messin to try that salvia divinorum stuff be damn sure you know what you're getting yourself into and that you would actually like to have your world shredded in the divine food processor and then set on fire with the flames of Dantes inferno.

Heironimous Bosch can go screw himself the lame arsed cissy, this stuff's for pros who really do want to meet the devil.

I read that the active ingredient salvinorum A is the stongest halucinogen known to man, yet there are only 2 countries in the world have had the sense to ban the stuff. Australia and Norway.

All I could think as I was 'coming back' from whatever parallel universe I'd momentarily dunked myself into was that my mate who gave me the stuff had tricked me into some alien 'truth' cult by letting me in on the great unknown secret, the bastard, I didn't want to know shit like that!

We're all batteries for these great machines that keep us in pods and feed realities directly into our brains with the use of this 'matrix' supercomputer....No wait....I think that was a film I saw.

But it felt like that, with these weird 'Doctor Who' style reptilian monsters standing behind me holding me in my chair

If I take the red pill as well will it cancel out the effects??

Nope. Just makes it more intense.

Who needs crap like that when trying to get a grip with actually living in this bizarre world....
and here (thread probably interesting to you): http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 674#359674


EDIT: ]

actually I think this was the post I meant...seems there are a few :oops: 8O

In the Albert Hoffman thread: http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 499#220499
forge wrote:
dubbyah wrote:h ever broke through on DMT or salvia?....
Salvia (10 times extract) was the single worst experience of my life. I had a joint of it in amsterdam which must have been just leaves or something and it did nothing, so armed with that cockiness a friend who is a lover of the stuff poured some of the 10x extract in a bag, kept looking, adding more, and more unable to measure properly with a pipe, so I took it home, was sitting in front of my laptop in a swivel office chair and smoked the whole lot in one hit.

For a moment nothing, then I started to spin - like the chair swivelling, round faster and faster - it really felt like the chair was spinning like a funfair ride and everything was bouncing, then it was like I was in a great big cosmic blender and I started having my whole being shredded by it and the real universe started showing through the cracks which was filthy and decaying and it was like the matrix when he realises he's a battery, but I was sitting htere and there weere these really tall (like 12 foot) alien beings standing behind me with cicada like heads and they weren't friendly and I went to stand up but one put it's hand on my shoulder and forced me to stay sitting there spinning. Eventually I managed to get up and move to the bed but none of it was real it was all now a fake reality because i'd just seen the real one, and all the while there was this demented techno with freaky chants that sounded like my name backwards on it constantly playing in my head.

It was truly the worst most freaky thing I've ever experienced. All I was thinking was my friend was actually deliberately letting me in to a terrible knowing of a terrible secret so I had to ring him up.

And here's the thing. I bought it in a shop legally, over the counter. Apparently there are only 2 countries where it is illegal and that's denmark and Oz. So lucky I now live in Oz so I will never have it, but I wouldnt by choice anway.

It only lasts about 15 minutes, but it is the longest, most intense 15 mins of your life.
My dad tried it and it was like I watched his soul get physically sucked out of him.

So my only guess is it's legal because in it's 1x untreated form it doesnt do much, it's just people like to refine things and make them 10 times stronger.
.....
Last edited by forge on Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:26 am, edited 3 times in total.

forge
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Post by forge » Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:14 am

funknotik wrote:I tried it twice and it didn't do a damn thing. That was like two years ago I no longer care to try it again. But yeah I heard of people tripping pretty hard on it, didn't seem to work for me. Shrooms are better...
you probably just had the leaves, I had 10x extract and it was more intense than anything ever

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