4:33 - True Minimal, or the most absurd thing ever?

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:47 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4:33

What do you guys think? Is a piece of music consisting of silence really music?

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:49 pm

if you're the one not playing, then yes, music to my ears.

it had to be done, just like submitting a urinal to an artshow.

ethios4 · Post by **ethios4** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:03 pm

I highly recommend John Cage's book, Silence. It completely changed the way I hear everything, and my whole philosophy of music and sound. 4'33" is the very foundation from which music arises. Zen music.

Hidden Driveways · Post by **Hidden Driveways** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:06 pm

Didn't Frank Zappa cover 4'33" ?

I love John Cage's music.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:12 pm

People should read this wiki, thanks Neb for pointing it out.

4:33 = one of the most important learning tools as music IMO. If you don't get that and are stuck on the fact that it's not the recording you're listening to! or that it's a mockery, or that it's a cheap attempt at controversy etc. then hey, at least you can play, quantize, use pre-recorded loops, the Scale and Chord MID effects in Live, and step record your electronic music. Then live stand in front of a laptop and turn a dial or two on a MIDI controller while bobbing your head so people know you're not at work, and justify that as being 'real' music.

Honestly I thought it was a joke too when I first heard about it, but if you pay attention to the noise around you with an open mind, you can hear beauty there. The main challenge of 4:33 is almost always overlooked, which is that active listening with the intention of finding cohesion to sound in general is really what defines music in the first place.

ubermnd · Post by **ubermnd** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:12 pm

its not for everyone, but without the avant garde, music as we know it would be very different.

john cage was mucking about with turntables in the 40s. its interesting how these experiments eventually filter through to mainstream culture.

4.33 opened us up to the idea that any sound can be interpreted as having a valid musical meaning. of course we are now totally familiar with music that explores extended timbre or makes use of ambient noise. you have to appreciate it in its context. by todays standards its nothing special but in its time it was pioneering and ground breaking. modern electroacoustic music owes much to the avant garde in terms of how it broadened the spectrum of what music can actually be defined as.

that is all.

ethios4 · Post by **ethios4** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:48 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBvhIHWogFw

ethios4 · Post by **ethios4** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:15 pm

ubermnd wrote:john cage was mucking about with turntables in the 40s. its interesting how these experiments eventually filter through to mainstream culture.

yeah, he was replacing the needle with pine needles, and rubbing it across corn cobs and such. Where's the DJs working on that level today?!

funky shit · Post by **funky shit** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:36 pm

explain 4:33 to me.
now

NorthernMonkey · Post by **NorthernMonkey** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:37 pm

funky shit wrote:explain 4:33 to me.
now

*silence*

funky shit · Post by **funky shit** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:39 pm

I was thinking that.

no point.

Emissary · Post by **Emissary** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:41 pm

i did a performance of this in american experimental music in Uni. It was really lovely. we were out in the grounds and everyone congratulated me on it afterwards. I did it with a mini keyboard though, not a giant piano. very peacefull.

stringtapper · Post by **stringtapper** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:48 pm

nebulae wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4:33

What do you guys think? Is a piece of music consisting of silence really music?

Is this the first you've heard of it?

RePeter · Post by **RePeter** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:25 pm

Machinesworking wrote:
Honestly I thought it was a joke too when I first heard about it, but if you pay attention to the noise around you with an open mind, you can hear beauty there. .

All I can hear is a bingo caller and a noisy server!

ethios4 · Post by **ethios4** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:48 pm

Emissary wrote: I did it with a mini keyboard though, not a giant piano. very peacefull.

I had the wonderful opportunity to perform this on a grand piano once....quite majestic I must say!

4:33 - True Minimal, or the most absurd thing ever?

4:33 - True Minimal, or the most absurd thing ever?

Re: 4:33 - True Minimal, or the most absurd thing ever?