Pure Data vs. Max/MSP

Beatport · Post by **Beatport** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:28 pm

What's the difference? What benefits does one have over the other besides PD being free?

synnack · Post by **synnack** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:51 pm

They do similar things in similar ways.

As you noted, Pd is free but Max comes with AWESOME documentation and tutorials that to me, make the price worth it.

From a technical perspective, I don't know of much you can do with one that you can't do with the other.

ciw · Post by **ciw** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:01 pm

don't know about max but you can't use pd via rewire

Crash · Post by **Crash** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:19 pm

No Sysex in PD on Windows (maybe not even on Mac).

littlepig · Post by **littlepig** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:49 pm

There are a lot of tutorials for PD if you look on the PD website.

IMO being free is a big advantage!

chapelier fou · Post by **chapelier fou** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:54 pm

Max 5 : much much more user frendly. Works in rewire.
And significant price reduction if you are a student.

Lo-Fi Massahkah · Post by **Lo-Fi Massahkah** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:40 pm

Max 5=pretty. Yes I like nice GUIs.

Max 5=extremely well documented.

Max 5 has a ridiculously cheap academic pricing which includes MSP & Jitter.

These three all speak in favour of Max in my book.

.m

furrybum · Post by **furrybum** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:17 pm

I've been messing around with PD and it's a massive head fuck in my opinion. May be worth sticking with it though

mdk · Post by **mdk** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:33 pm

its probably even worth getting the max demo and working throught the tutorials even if you are just going to switch to PD because there is enough similarity for them to be useful. same goes for other modular environments as well, reaktor, bidule, synthmaker etc..

i think the major differences between them are which signal types do they support such as event (aka control), audio (or signal), midi, spectral etc.. and what kind of UI system they have.

anyway, I reckon if you do switch to PD after trying Max/MSP you'll soon start wondering what you can sell so you can buy Max

out of all the modular systems I listed its definitely my favourite.

synnack · Post by **synnack** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:42 pm

Ok I'll say it...

Another big plug for Max is that Ableton is doing something with it.

Soon enough, in theory, knowing and owning max will enable you to be fancy with Ableton, in theory, at some point.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:47 pm

tempus3r wrote:Soon enough, in theory, knowing and owning max will enable you to be fancy with Ableton, in theory, at some point.

pure speculation. I highly doubt that's true.

I talked to the C74 guys at AES:

Ableton is working on it.

it's an Ableton thing, not a C74 thing. IOW it'll look and feel like Ableton, not max/msp.

I mentioned how it could be too techie and not DJ friendly (idiot proof), he just got a big ass grin on his face and said "nobody will be disappointed."

I got the impression that it will come when it comes, max5 took C74's time. I just wish Ableton hadn't advertised it so soon.

I really wish people would stop treating max like some unapproachable giant that lives on a mountaintop. you don't have to be a genius to use it, people are just lazy.

synnack · Post by **synnack** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:51 pm

Tone Deft wrote:
tempus3r wrote:Soon enough, in theory, knowing and owning max will enable you to be fancy with Ableton, in theory, at some point.
pure speculation. I highly doubt that's true.

I talked to the C74 guys at AES:

Ableton is working on it.

it's an Ableton thing, not a C74 thing. IOW it'll look and feel like Ableton, not max/msp.

I mentioned how it could be too techie and not DJ friendly (idiot proof), he just got a big ass grin on his face and said "nobody will be disappointed."

I got the impression that it will come when it comes, max5 took C74's time. I just wish Ableton hadn't advertised it so soon.

I really wish people would stop treating max like some unapproachable giant that lives on a mountaintop. you don't have to be a genius to use it, people are just lazy.

I don't know how anything you said negates anything I said.

It is indeed true that there will be SOMETHING between the two at some point. So an advantage to owning max is that at some point, Ableton has promised to leverage max in some way.

I don't think what c74 told you is contrary to that.

Agreed that they announced it way too early. But the comments Henke made in the NZ workshop video is enough to be excited for the future of AbeC74.

nit · Post by **nit** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:53 pm

i started messing with PD two months ago. before ì din't know it was max's open source brother. it was hard to learn but not as hard as i expected actually. i did some tutorials (delivered with the package but you have to search for em). and after a week or two of hard working (i had to much time on my hands) i managed to make some random drum computers. and other random sampler-like things.
but then. then i started to have a look @ max 5. i did a cool gig wich paid well so io had some money. i downloaded the demo and immediatly saw that i was inventing wheels with PD. i still had no work so i had lots of time left to go and learn it. after a week i made patches that did things wich i wanted to do do with ableton live but were not possible. and i was sold! two weeks later (when the demo ended) i bought my copy.

even though i had some expirience with PD it felt like max is much easier to get your hands on. the package is much miore complete and the documentation much more specifik i think. but then again you're paying $500,- for it.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:05 pm

tempus3r wrote:It is indeed true that there will be SOMETHING between the two at some point. So an advantage to owning max is that at some point, Ableton has promised to leverage max in some way.

how can you state that "it is indeed true"? what do you know? you work for one of these companies? did you speak to someone? Ableton didn't promise a thing, you're making things up, don't do that, the badgers will get you!!

I really doubt it. what you're saying is that not only would people have to buy Live for $500+ they need to buy max for $500+. I stated that I was told that it's a Live thing, not a C74 thing, IOW no you won't need max, I doubt you'll even need to understand or have even seen max. re-read what I wrote, I do disagree. it would be dumb for Ableton to complicate their software that much (hence the DJ-friendly comment.)

don't mean to get all argumentative, but this IS serious business (fuck politics!!

)

Gerhard was at the show though, without a scarf.

I've only used max, not Pd, but if max4 was being compared to Pd as pretty similar, max5 has to blow Pd away. it's incredibly more user friendly than version 4 and earlier.

synnack · Post by **synnack** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:11 pm

Tone Deft wrote: how can you state that "it is indeed true"? what do you know? you work for one of these companies? did you speak to someone? Ableton didn't promise a thing, you're making things up, don't do that, the badgers will get you!!

Again I dont' see how "it" being something from Ableton and not C74 has anything to do with anything.

Though I have not spoken to anyone directly, Robert was pretty clear in the NZ video that SOMETHING would exist at some point to allow better communication between Max and Ableton. It was clear from his discussion of the Monodeck II that it was needed and it seemed likely that after Max5 was stable, we'd see something enabling that.

Many have speculated that this includes the ability to access Ableton clip names and things inside Max and to communicate between the two via OSC without dirty telnet/API hacks.

Besides, speculating on geek crap is fun. What would I live for if not to hit refresh on General all day just waiting to see "Live 8 features OSC and improved communication with Max/MSP!"