Ot: this flu shot stuff is freakin me the frack out

[3osc]

The Internet really isn't the best source of medical information, believe it or not. Go talk to doctors. The more the better.

That's a good one.

Your bog standard family doctor is as poorly informed about a lot of the facts in this whole debate as the general public, here in the UK anyway. All they will do is spit out the party line without taking into account people's individual requirements and fears. I am pretty relaxed about a lot of this kinda stuff but my wife is well into not putting shit into our bodies that shouldn't be put in there. She went to our GP to talk about it and he admitted he couldn't answer any of her queries. We asked another GP, same response.

Two doctors admit ignorance and that means... all doctors are? Science is about understanding. Even if a doctor claims to know what they're talking about, they should be able to back it up with a rudimentary summary of the studies they've read, at the very least. At least those GP's were honest about what they don't know, but that doesn't mean all GP's are, or that there are no doctors to talk to. Too many people are looking for simple answers to the questions of vaccination.

[3osc]

I could be wrong, but I'm reasonably sure that adjuvents have been used in vaccines for years. Whether or not there are new, untested chemicals is something for an expert to talk about.

Well, that's the thing, I heard experts being worried about the adjuvents used by Glaxo Smith Kline.

Awkwords, are you a doctor or medicine student?

I really would like to hear more facts and opinions about this vaccine and the adjuvents by someone qualified, especially as I have a very young kid and plan to go to travel argentina in the beginning of next year. Up until now all I heard from "experts" was to better not use the vaccine, especially not on very young kids.

I am just a worried father reading stuff. And rather believing what doctors say, not what the government or GSK says.

No, I'm no medical expert in the slightest. Further, I have no idea what vaccines are like outside of the U.S. as far as standards and practices go. If there are doctors in your area who are saying that the danger of the vaccination outweighs the risk of infection, then I'd say that's something to consider.

Most of my family has been in and out of the hospital for my entire life. I have learned that there's always a risk to every procedure, and vaccines are no exception. Auto-immune disorders (Guillain-Barre is the most common, I think) can arise from your body trying to hard to fight the dead virus in an injection. Dystonia can come from getting injected with anything. Sometimes the virus in a vaccine isn't completely dead and the user risks being infected anyways. There are risks, and there are legitimate reasons for someone to not take a vaccine. It's a matter of weighing the risks of what can happen with an infection and what can happen with an injection. I consider doctors to be the best people to talk to, being that they've had extensive training in the matter.

Also, contrary to what I said before, there is an Internet resource that, if anything, may help prepare the concerned parent/patient with questions to ask a doctor. Dr. Sears' Vaccine Book seems very balanced and rational to me, but again I'm not an expert. He explains his position very well, and that goes far with me. He also doesn't blindly advocate or damn vaccines, but gives the reader a lot to think about. There's a list of doctors who have offered themselves as consultants on the site, but they all seem to be U.S. based. Some have email addresses.

[jeskola01]

What is animal derived inside vaccines?

The vacine is made in chicken eggs.

[H20nly]

The Internet really isn't the best source of medical information, believe it or not. Go talk to doctors. The more the better.

Just make sure if its during lunchtime that you get em to swallow first and wipe the food off their chin that the drug rep just fed them.

its right there. no no, right there. wait, yeah... yeah you got it.

Wild shot here - I'm guessing that you're trying to insinuate that all doctors are in the pocket of Big Pharma, except for the ones that agree with your position. I'm also going to guess that you can conjur up some evidence that doctors are getting paid off by pharmaceutical companies for each vaccination. 'Cause really, it would just be stupid to make that sort of claim without the evidence to back it up.

And Cynicism is not evidence.

Actually I work in the medical industry... thats all the proof I need.

I was just reminding you and anyone else that your trusted doctors are not above being manipulated. - quite far from it in fact. You see, they're human.

I do find it interesting that many nurses and doctors are also skeptical of taking the vaccine and simply do not.

Optimism and unwavering faith are not evidence either.

[ekwipt]

What's a little mercury in your shot anyway? Ignore these inconvenient facts: A typical flu vaccine shot solution is 50,000 parts per billion of mercury. The EPA classifies any substance with more than 200 parts per billion as hazardous waste. (The EPA limit in drinking water is 2 parts per billion.) Thus, the mercury density in a vaccine is 25,000% higher than the level required to be considered hazardous waste. This is injected directly into the bloodstream of infants, children, expectant mothers and senior citizens. What could possibly be dangerous about that?

[AceLuby]

There is zero scientific evidence that H1N1 vaccine has caused any of the side effects reported in the media.

The reason that epidemiologists are worried is that there is a chance that the swine flu will follow the pattern of the Spanish Flu in 1918. That hit during the winter, and was very mild like the swine flu is now. Then it mutated, and came back in the spring, and wiped out more people than WW1 did. There's good reasons for the medical professions to advise caution and to take the vaccine if youre in a high risk group.

I dont have young kids, but if i did, i would %100 get them vaccinated. It seems fashionable for people to refuse vaccinations these days. Hence measles and whooping cough are on the rise in the developed world again because of the drop in herd immunity. Baffling.

It's baffling to me that people buy into this so much.

So what if the swine flu does change. Do you honestly think that this vaccine would stop that new flu, or would it be just another rush to get the vaccine changed and have more vaccinations, more shortages, and more scares?

I've gotten the flu twice in 5 years. Once was the only time I got a flu shot, so I'm not one for hype regarding vaccines for mutating viruses.

[H20nly]

Wild shot here - I'm guessing that you're trying to insinuate that all doctors are in the pocket of Big Pharma, except for the ones that agree with your position. I'm also going to guess that you can conjur up some evidence that doctors are getting paid off by pharmaceutical companies for each vaccination. 'Cause really, it would just be stupid to make that sort of claim without the evidence to back it up.

You know I was thinking about this... you said it would be stupid (in bold even) to make a claim that doctors could be in the pocket of big pharma...

maybe you're right. evidence should be gathered.

where was it that you would get that again?
docotorsabmittingtheydon'treallycareaboutyou.com?
or
1-800-lets-be-honest
press 1 for Doctors
press 2 for Big Pharma
press 3 for Politicians

maybe their ex-wives or former partners on real estate deals would know??

oh I know, we ask their mirror over their overpriced bathroom vanity. surely the mirror gets all the admissions.

God?

look I'm not trying to be a dick here but seriously think about it.
thats like passing out a survey to a bunch of high school seniors that says "Do You Smoke Pot?"
Yeah a few hardline renegades will put Yes on that, but the rest of the class?
how many of those hardline renegades went on to become doctors?
i bet thats a tangible number.

Besides drug reps are sales men. Its their job to assure the good doctor that his goods are the best. Just like the BMW dealer assured the good doctor that their cars are the best. So at the end of the day the doctor actually believes that shit which for all intents and purposes makes it gospel.

medical professionals have been wrong before. way wrong.

[LuckyLoo]

Don't any of you know that Donald Rumsfeld owns Tamiflu? He is making billions once again by scaring people. the public is so easy to dupe. http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... a&aid=1148

[H20nly]

^ surprise!




or is it?


@ LuckyLoo, Nice one.

[eisnein]

just gonna throw some fuel on this fire-

my missus has to get the h1n1 vaccine to keep her job by state legislature!

what you serious, don't know what to think about that. does she want to take it?

yeah totally serious although it seems that they just revoked that since there isnt enough of a supply.

[mikemc]

damn, the video is really alarming. i have to say that it is not absolutely clear that her condition can be linked directly to the flu shot she got ten days before the onset, but it is a really severe condition. It is really weird.

[3osc]

You know I was thinking about this... you said it would be stupid (in bold even) to make a claim that doctors could be in the pocket of big pharma...

maybe you're right. evidence should be gathered.

where was it that you would get that again?
docotorsabmittingtheydon'treallycareaboutyou.com?
or
1-800-lets-be-honest
press 1 for Doctors
press 2 for Big Pharma
press 3 for Politicians

maybe their ex-wives or former partners on real estate deals would know??

oh I know, we ask their mirror over their overpriced bathroom vanity. surely the mirror gets all the admissions.

God?

look I'm not trying to be a dick here but seriously think about it.
thats like passing out a survey to a bunch of high school seniors that says "Do You Smoke Pot?"
Yeah a few hardline renegades will put Yes on that, but the rest of the class?
how many of those hardline renegades went on to become doctors?
i bet thats a tangible number.

Besides drug reps are sales men. Its their job to assure the good doctor that his goods are the best. Just like the BMW dealer assured the good doctor that their cars are the best. So at the end of the day the doctor actually believes that shit which for all intents and purposes makes it gospel.

medical professionals have been wrong before. way wrong.

Congratulations. You just admitted to making a claim without the evidence to back it up.

I'm not optimistic or unwaiveringly faithful (though I will admit I depend on the opinion of medical professionals), I demand evidence, which I try to understand to the best of my ability. Since you "work in the medical industry", maybe you can connect the dots for everyone here. Show us the flaws in the studies that test the effectiveness of the vaccines. Show us the paper trail that proves big pharma has doctors by the braids so they convince the public that we need some awful injections that they all just know will hurt us anyways. Please, provide any evidence for your argument other than your stubborn insistence that the world is the way you think it is. I would love to be wrong, because it'd save me a whole $25 a shot.

Look, if you want to be irrational, then that's your right. I know how manipulative salesmen can be, and that they have their fingers all over the medical industry. I know doctors can be wrong. That doesn't mean that vaccines don't work or that many people, especially those with pre-existing respitory illnesses, shouldn't get vaccinated.

[Tone Deft]

[3osc]

Don't any of you know that Donald Rumsfeld owns Tamiflu? He is making billions once again by scaring people. the public is so easy to dupe. http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... a&aid=1148

Where is this Rumsfeld business coming from? Is he a doctor? Is he pushing people to get vaccinated?

Further, what does Tamiflu have to do with vaccinations? Tamifluis an antiviral treatment drug that's given to people who already have the flu. You know, like when some kid's parents refused to get him vaccinated because they thought Rumsfeld would get a cash bonus, and now the kid's life is in danger from respitory failure. Or when someone who has chronic asthma tests positive for H1N1. Or someone with AIDs, or a cancer patient, for that matter. THEY get Tamiflu. They get it because despite the nasty side effects, it reduces the chance that they will die from a virus they can't fight off themselves.

Lastly, Rumsfeld does NOT own Tamiflu. He was Chairman of the company until 2001,
when he stepped down to be Secretary of Defense to the Bush administration, now he owns a lot of stock in the company. If he benefits from anything, it would be people NOT getting vaccinated.

The public may be easy to dupe, but I am not.

[H20nly]

Congratulations. You just admitted to making a claim without the evidence to back it up.

I'm not optimistic or unwaiveringly faithful (though I will admit I depend on the opinion of medical professionals), I demand evidence, which I try to understand to the best of my ability. Since you "work in the medical industry", maybe you can connect the dots for everyone here. Show us the flaws in the studies that test the effectiveness of the vaccines. Show us the paper trail that proves big pharma has doctors by the braids so they convince the public that we need some awful injections that they all just know will hurt us anyways. Please, provide any evidence for your argument other than your stubborn insistence that the world is the way you think it is. I would love to be wrong, because it'd save me a whole $25 a shot.

Look, if you want to be irrational, then that's your right. I know how manipulative salesmen can be, and that they have their fingers all over the medical industry. I know doctors can be wrong. That doesn't mean that vaccines don't work or that many people, especially those with pre-existing respitory illnesses, shouldn't get vaccinated.

You asked me to prove something that is not documented nor will it ever be unless or until it becomes illegal and they're convicted or otherwise documented by force. What should I do hi-jack a Physicians convention at gun point and force them to admit that they chose drug XYZ based entirely on some high school graduate drug rep's promise of what it would do for their practice. Not the patient mind you...

Shit yesterday I ate food that drug reps brought in. Sometimes they think I'm a doctor and start purring around my ankles too. Then I tell them what I do and they can't figure out whether to kiss my ass or move on. So I move on.

I already told you there are doctors and nurses that won't take the drug. I don't need any more proof.

Remember this?

The Internet really isn't the best source of medical information, believe it or not. Go talk to doctors. The more the better.

Just make sure if its during lunchtime that you get em to swallow first and wipe the food off their chin that the drug rep just fed them.

its right there. no no, right there. wait, yeah... yeah you got it.

Wild shot here - I'm guessing that you're trying to insinuate that all doctors are in the pocket of Big Pharma, except for the ones that agree with your position. I'm also going to guess that you can conjur up some evidence that doctors are getting paid off by pharmaceutical companies for each vaccination. 'Cause really, it would just be stupid to make that sort of claim without the evidence to back it up.

And Cynicism is not evidence.

To which I replied:

Actually I work in the medical industry... thats all the proof I need.

I was just reminding you and anyone else that your trusted doctors are not above being manipulated. - quite far from it in fact. You see, they're human.

I do find it interesting that many nurses and doctors are also skeptical of taking the vaccine and simply do not.

Optimism and unwavering faith are not evidence either.

You can take your your blind integrity theories and shove those down the toilet with most doctors hopes of having their student loans paid off by the time their 40.
Greed never sleeps. This isn't Fox news and I haven't just tuned in.

Sounds to me like you're ready to go get a shot. Stop typing and get that sleeve rolled up.

If I would have said make sure and go get a second opinion you probably would have agreed with me.
Too verbose for you?