OT: save the freakin earth you dumb humans

[alex.the.forge]

obviously the planet will take care of itself. the planet doesn't care if life exists on it

I agree with this, but David Attenborough is always careful to describe his works as a snapshot of life on earth at the "end of the 20th and beginning of the 21st centuries" - because he knows that so much of it will be extinct soon

admittedly 99% of all life that has ever existed on earth is extinct (that's not an exaggeration either), but that doesn't mean we should just let it happen if we can help it

[leonard]

obviously the planet will take care of itself. the planet doesn't care if life exists on it

I agree with this, but David Attenborough is always careful to describe his works as a snapshot of life on earth at the "end of the 20th and beginning of the 21st centuries" - because he knows that so much of it will be extinct soon

admittedly 99% of all life that has ever existed on earth is extinct (that's not an exaggeration either), but that doesn't mean we should just let it happen if we can help it

i don't. unless you mean it in the sense that a planet is not capable of human thoughts like "caring" and "not caring".
you have to look at the earth as a giant organism, much like the human species.
with humans, treat them like crap, keep pumping toxins into them, crap food, cigarettes drugs etc. you'll get diseased, sick, and eventually die (sooner than if you don't at least).
keep pumping crap into the earth (pollution), it'll get diseased, sick, and die.
not in your or my lifetime.
and never before in the history of life on earth has there been anything like the industrial revolution and the pollution it's caused, so you can't say "life has been on the planet for billions of years etc.....".

[crofter]

The biggest problem is that there's about 3 billion too many people on this rock,this isn't going to change, the planet will do quite nicely, it's the human species that will find it tough, you get what you deserve.

[Emissary]

Climate change is a good thing, freshen things up a bit, get some new species and hopefully reduce human population, although as usual the lovely people who actually did nothing will be the ones punished, but hey thats capitalism for you, and you all love that so wooohoo!

[Earwax69]

Capitalism will play against any green effort. Companies just want more money and ecologic products comes at a high cost. Only regulation can help in a capitalist world.

Companies make money and pollute, people get sick of it and elect greener representants, governement pass resolutions and force companies to do some minimal efforts, Fox news get crazy and scream communism, gov mesures are overall too weak, people start to die, riots everywhere, companies owners are decapitated, Fox news incite revolt and become leaders of the redneck revolution, earth become desert, somewhere over the borders a lone warrior agrees to help a small, gasoline rich, community escape a band of bandits.

[Green Lemon]

obviously the planet will take care of itself. the planet doesn't care if life exists on it

I agree with this, but David Attenborough is always careful to describe his works as a snapshot of life on earth at the "end of the 20th and beginning of the 21st centuries" - because he knows that so much of it will be extinct soon

admittedly 99% of all life that has ever existed on earth is extinct (that's not an exaggeration either), but that doesn't mean we should just let it happen if we can help it

i don't. unless you mean it in the sense that a planet is not capable of human thoughts like "caring" and "not caring".
you have to look at the earth as a giant organism, much like the human species.
with humans, treat them like crap, keep pumping toxins into them, crap food, cigarettes drugs etc. you'll get diseased, sick, and eventually die (sooner than if you don't at least).
keep pumping crap into the earth (pollution), it'll get diseased, sick, and die.
not in your or my lifetime.
and never before in the history of life on earth has there been anything like the industrial revolution and the pollution it's caused, so you can't say "life has been on the planet for billions of years etc.....".

I don't know, I oscillate between thinking that the planet doesn't care, that nature will get along just fine without us, that the planet is not aware, etc, and on the other hand thinking that the planet is quite conscious- more than you and I, in fact, to a degree that we cannot really understand- and that the evolution of the different species on the planet, both biologically and culturally, is something vital- the point of it all. Evolving towards nonviolence, linguistic and technological sophistication. Does it matter? To me it does.

I don't think we can simply say that the planet will be fine if we fuck it all up. In the long term, of course it will all begin again. But the loss of even one species is such a waste. Cultures and genetic variety are the true wealth of our planet.

While it is true that there has never been any situation on our planet like the current one, our moment is far from hopeless as we have tools for cooperation and non hierarchical coordination which are equally unprecedented. Of course, we have to test, discard, and implement ideas as rapidly as possible. There is a lot of movement in the right direction.

And there is a lot of inertia based on fear and greed as well.

[Green Lemon]

for example...when we deliver things around the plant area where i work, typically if something
is on a pallet and you dont want it to fall, off you just wrap it with saran wrap. this is something thats
relatively small and nobody thinks about but very wasteful. so how about a pallet that is stack able and has sides
on it so nothing falls off? maybe made of recycled plastic so its durable, easy to clean and recyclable itself?

anyways i guess my point is that there is alot of pressure put on the end consumer when there is a VAST amount of room
for other innovations in different sectors that nobody really thinks about...

(ive come up with some really wacky ideas that everybody i work with laughs at )

That's a good idea. What are some of your other ideas?

In my view, the consumer is the end of the chain of problems. We should tackle them at a point before they get to the consumer in general.

For instance, instead of building additional power plants, we should design devices to not consume power when they are not in use, and devices that turn themselves off. This stuff is already in the works, of course. Will it make the crucial difference? I think the question is really whether the technology transfer will make it to the emerging economies of today. If we can get these countries to skip over a couple of steps in the dirty/inefficient technology--->clean/efficient technology chain, we have a hope (China and India alone have a population of 2 billion). If not, we are fucked.

[WaveRider]

its a big fat motherfoooking Tax SCAM!!!

+1

yeah sure taxes and the carbon stock exchange will save the earth!


cause you know how taxes and the stock exchange are good for humankind, so those will surely save the earth too

[WaveRider]

hopefully reduce human population,

why don't you volunteer first?

[arctic ranger]

for example...when we deliver things around the plant area where i work, typically if something
is on a pallet and you dont want it to fall, off you just wrap it with saran wrap. this is something thats
relatively small and nobody thinks about but very wasteful. so how about a pallet that is stack able and has sides
on it so nothing falls off? maybe made of recycled plastic so its durable, easy to clean and recyclable itself?

anyways i guess my point is that there is alot of pressure put on the end consumer when there is a VAST amount of room
for other innovations in different sectors that nobody really thinks about...

(ive come up with some really wacky ideas that everybody i work with laughs at )

That's a good idea. What are some of your other ideas?

In my view, the consumer is the end of the chain of problems. We should tackle them at a point before they get to the consumer in general.

For instance, instead of building additional power plants, we should design devices to not consume power when they are not in use, and devices that turn themselves off. This stuff is already in the works, of course. Will it make the crucial difference? I think the question is really whether the technology transfer will make it to the emerging economies of today. If we can get these countries to skip over a couple of steps in the dirty/inefficient technology--->clean/efficient technology chain, we have a hope (China and India alone have a population of 2 billion). If not, we are fucked.

heh...well a couple of years ago when i first started in construction i thought it would be cool to use hybrid engines inside manlifts. for the most part you could run on the electrical side making minor adjustments then when you need power the motor part will kick in.

just recently fully electrical JLG manlifts have come out with a small backup diesel engine to charge the batteris when they need it.

i also think that there is room for this type of technology for cranes as well.

my craziest idea comes from the freaking unbelievable amount of paperwork it takes to build a plant/building/whatever. i work as a industrial steamfitter
and the crazy paperwaste can definatley be avoided. there's drawings, iso drawings, cutsheets, 3-d renderings, revisions,and test packages. most iso drawings have a spec sheets on certain things that are repeated and redundant. also if you are looking for a piece of material you make photocopies of the original then when you find it you throw it in the trash.

so what im proposing and im sure the technology is out there. is a durable rugged touchscreen tablet thingie thats hooked up to a wireless network at the jobsite. so for example, if you are looking for a spool piece (piece of pipe) and you need to see what it looks like - just type in the line number in your tablet and a cut sheet comes up. then if you need pipe support specs just call up the spec sheet. when you deliver it to where it has to go then mark it of as being signed off to the foreman who receives it and has one as well...then that foreman needs to see a 3-d rendering then he can call it up.
and THEN if the engineer decides to make a revision he lets the worker know through the wireless network...i can go on and on, but i hope you get the idea. anyways, almost all of this stuff is done through vast amounts of paperwork...just the receiving alone reguires forms to be filled out in triplicate.

ive told some people that i work with about this and they think its a good idea, but dismiss it right away as being too hard to implement. i think it can be done.

k...too much typing...ive peaked for the day
time to go make beats

[stonee]

a couple of people have said this and they're right.

in the end, saving the environment is for our own sakes, not the environment. its not likely that we will be able to completly wipe out all life on this planet. but, we depend on the diversity of our ecosystems for our survival.

right now, we are using the resources of 1.4 earths. if everyone were to consume the way we (north america) does, we'd need 8.6 earths to sustain us.

also, right now, species are going exctinct faster than when the dinosaurs went extinct. we are in the midst of the largest mass extinction this planet has seen. completly our fault.

personally, global warming is a lost battle. studies I've seen show that without active Co2 reversal(replanting vast amounts of forests, co2 harvesting, and burying co2) even if we cold cut co2 today, the effects will take 20-30 years to start reversing.
not saying that our co2 emmision dont matter, but working first hand with wildlife recovery, i belive that our first goal to protect wildlife, our planet and ultimately ourselves comes down to protecting habitats.

even more important than turning your lights off at night, or any of that other crap is to take the time to learn about the wildlife in your area, and learn how you can co-exist with these animals, and minimize your imact in an area as local as your backyard. its a very simple thing that anyone can do, and if enough people do it, the results can be mesured in a year or 2.

forget the rainforests and stuff for a minute, because there's stuff thats just as important in your backyard!

I worked with a land stewardship program in southwestern nova scotia. and I can tell you firsthand, just by educating people about how to properly develope they're land and interact with the native habitat, the health of the ecosystem is amazing. there's happy animals everywhere!
because of the cooperation of people we have a place that is recognised worldwide for its bio diversity.

[knotkranky]

"Save the earth" is some real poor mankind marketing imo. I'm serious.

It should be "Save the humans", but that sounds like we have to include people we don't like so forget that.

Lets all rally around the thing that cares about us the least

[bosonHavoc]

ya so fuck recycling
lets make all parks land fills
dump our sewage straight into the oceans
and burn as much coal as possible
cut down the trees
slash and burn the rain forests
kill all the animals
eat all the fish
lets live large and drive cars
hell we all ballers!!
fuck it we gonna die anyway
screw the children
screw the future of the earth and humanity
we don't need it
cause we are going to die and you can not take it with you.

ya thats it...

what about all the people in history that dedicated their lives to a dream of bettering humanity.
they must have been pretty dumb..


for real though
we really need to watch out for all this "green" capitalist marketing.
their are allot of lies out their.
their seems to be a number of "green" energy sources that are questionable..
it is a band wagon but it doesn't mean it is wrong.. you just have to be aware
we all should question everything..

i believe the people have the power and are the only ones that can make change.
the people have been making change by being passive and swallowing the pills shoved in front of them.

it starts with each of us because the only thing you have control over is yourself.. and that is all..

[alex.the.forge]

...While it is true that there has never been any situation on our planet like the current one, our moment is far from hopeless as we have tools for cooperation and non hierarchical coordination which are equally unprecedented. Of course, we have to test, discard, and implement ideas as rapidly as possible. There is a lot of movement in the right direction.

And there is a lot of inertia based on fear and greed as well.

there have been several mass extinction phases on this planet, although it is looking like the current one is the worst.

but while it's pretty clear it's our actions that have lead to it, I'm not sure we could have evolved in the way we have without having some kind of negative impact and displacing some of the life forms on earth. On any level, whenever one life form starts to dominate it is usually at the expense of another. But I don't think achieving the balance that is needed for happy co-existence would have been possible before we reached the level of consciousness we're coming to now. I mean it is really a very short time since we started to figure out that we are having this impact, and I don't think the attitude of most people is that we really want to shit on our own doorstep, we just haven't figured out the alternatives yet, and I think that will be very much what this century is about.

I'm actually an optimist. I actually think we can and will solve all of these problems, the only question is how much disruption and extinction will be caused before we do. But the reason we've thrived is because we are incredibly good at finding solutions to problems.

In fact, we're probably not far off being able to prevent or reverse the mass extinctions as well.

[arctic ranger]

when are people gonna realise there should be fucking rioting on the streets over what has gone on with our governments?
they bow down to corpoations while fucking us in the ass. then the come and say that
we the people are responsible for the cost of the cleanup?!? meanwhile alot of people are laughing cause there gonna make even MORE money
with this cap and trade system and we are getting fucked. when the fuck was that last time you have heard of any company getting a stiff fine for doing
something environmentally damaging? something that really suits the crime??... you probably havent. there is way to much money at stake
and it is our money...why the fuck should we pay for some corporations "externalities"?!? republican/democrat(for you americans) consevative/liberal(the douchtards leading my country) and liberal/ndp(the complete fucking moronic idiots leading my province) there all shit...more species are gonna be extinct and more money is gonna go out of our pockets in the name of big government and big buisiness. bend over cause its coming again...

/end rambling rant