Villalobos hating on Ableton

[3phase]

i question your musical knowledege and expertise

You actually enjoy listening to albums consisting entirely of 4/4 kicks, clicks and production tricks? Fair enough, but I fall asleep after 20 seconds of that shit.

90% of electronic music producers can't write melodies worth a damn anyway... Villalobos is one of them.

its pointless to argue about taste.. but seeing the thousend shitty minimal klicka klacka records that do what you just described and listening to ricardos stuff i hear a difference... a huuuuge difference... and when you dont get that i am at least surprised,, if not shocked... ae you into country and western?

[Captain Johnson]

Afaik Ricardo has one of the best equiped studios in Berlin and is ihmo one of the most innovative producers of nowadays techno music thus I would never call him nitwit.

But I also know the 'Ableton Live Engine' from inside and I can just say that it is at least as digital and neutral as competitors, everything else would be a bug

It always depends on what you do with your tool, not on the tool itself.

Just my 2 cents,
matthias

Totally agree here. It is not what you use but how you use it.

[Lux Libra]

too much talk, not enough music.

i don't want commend in this thread - everything comes in circles...themes,complains,opinions...

some GOOD villalobos stuff in my eyes
(ah, and listening some 20 sec's into some villalobos stuff won't bring you ANY idea about this guy's music):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj2ZiOLA ... 2&index=53
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am89inxK ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbJGu958 ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FvoJ-Ha ... re=related

[SubFunk]

i question your musical knowledege and expertise

You actually enjoy listening to albums consisting entirely of 4/4 kicks, clicks and production tricks? Fair enough, but I fall asleep after 20 seconds of that shit.

90% of electronic music producers can't write melodies worth a damn anyway... Villalobos is one of them.

its pointless to argue about taste.. but seeing the thousend shitty minimal klicka klacka records that do what you just described and listening to ricardos stuff i hear a difference... a huuuuge difference... and when you dont get that i am at least surprised,, if not shocked... ae you into country and western?

you probably hear the fleas coughing as well?

[chis]

Now that made me chuckle, I'll admit.

(ah, and listening some 20 sec's into some villalobos stuff won't bring you ANY idea about this guy's music):

Each to their own, m:o, but part of the problem is, where Villalobos needs 20-30 minute tracks to say something, others will need only 3-5 minutes.

If Eno made the ultimate ambient wallpaper album with Thursday Afternoon (I don't care if it IS the "ultimate" one or not, but many would agree it's the nearest equivalent of an audio painting, also see the second disc of Harold Budd's "Avalon Sutra"... need any more proof of my wide-ranging tastes now, 3phase?), Villalobos continues to rewrite the ultimate minimal techno wallpaper album with every release.

I put that as an objective statement, not whether I like it or not. I've already made _that_ clear. The fact that oh-so-trendy European bars are playing this stuff gives credence to the "wallpaper" theory...

[3phase]

i hear when they fly by my mics

[karmaofdove]

All I know is 808 the Bassqueen is an awesome track.

[telekom]

If you enjoy hearing someone bashing a biscuit tin with a rock, recorded on a portable tape deck, then this whole argument becomes a bit academic. Much good comment has already been made. Mainly though, we should all remember how privileged we are to make music with the tools for production and distribution we have at our disposal right now. 50 years ago it was still very difficult to get a chance to record and distribute the music you made. 25 years ago I was struggling with a crap record player in my bedroom trying to resample records with a tiny mic on my ghetto blaster so that I could re-arrange bits of songs into a sort of remix. Now I can make virtually any sound and record and process it right here where I'm sitting. It might not be brilliant, it might not be great quality sound, but if it moves somebody and makes them think or dance or reminisce or feel something then I've got no complaints about the tools I use. If I make bad music and it doesn't reach anybody then I can't blame Ableton for that. RV makes some incredible music, I just think he is too far away from reality now to remember what it feels like to be burning with an ambition to make a piece of music which you can hear in your head and heart, and yet have no means to realise it. Can anybody here remember having to SAVE UP to buy a 2nd hand guitar that sounded shit but was the most precious thing in the world to you?

Hey Ricardo, go to a desert island and make what you can with a few coconut shells and a tape deck. Then I'll care what you think of the need for a higher quality DAW.

In fact, I now announce the 1st Inaugural Ricardo Villalobos Award for Outstanding Contemporary Music Produced with a Tape Deck. 1st Prize: 1 Coconut. 2nd Prize: 1 Tape Deck. 3rd Prize: The chance to record two award winning musicians. Post your entries here. COME ON!!!!!

[Sylvr]

I still can't believe some of you guys are still saying all DAWs sound the same.
I love Ableton Live, I really do, but there is no doubt about the quality differences between Live and let's say ProTools or Logic.
Villalobos is right. ...and he is not HATING Ableton, he's just complaining about it's inferior sound quality.
Take some time and make some tests. Just produce some simple track in Live and do exactly the same in Protools.....
Compare the 2 using a good pair of speakers.
Are you still gonna tell me they both sound the same????????????????????????
If you do, I'm sorry but you are just deaf.

[leedsquietman]

WTF ?

Why resurrect this after 8 months. We have enough crap threads like this polluting the boards.

If we are talking purely digital summing through monitors, then you and Villalobotomy are in the minority.

Not just from fanboys, I am Protools HD certified and worked with it for 8 years, also Logic and Cubase. It helps if you know how to use Live, like read the manual, read the audio paper on L7 and 8. If you can't make a mix in Live sound good, you ain't got the skills or don't know the system.

But whatever, use your fucking Pro Tools if you must. Let's face it, Henke himself allegedly does.

I'm running a countdown timer to see how long before 3Phase chimes in.

[3phase]

WTF ?

Why resurrect this after 8 months. We have enough crap threads like this polluting the boards.

If we are talking purely digital summing through monitors, then you and Villalobotomy are in the minority.

Not just from fanboys, I am Protools HD certified and worked with it for 8 years, also Logic and Cubase. It helps if you know how to use Live, like read the manual, read the audio paper on L7 and 8. If you can't make a mix in Live sound good, you ain't got the skills or don't know the system.

But whatever, use your fucking Pro Tools if you must. Let's face it, Henke himself allegedly does.

I'm running a countdown timer to see how long before 3Phase chimes in.

? because i allways chime in when you say something stupid ?

what you call using it wright is like dont using it all... why bother to work with ableton live when not using the features it offers? and that just equals brown henke dither on...

[leedsquietman]

No, just nice to know that life is in order when you chime in so consistently, you are like Big Ben. I like that you are on your one man crusade to put Ableton right This is not an insult btw.

Use a whole bunch of timestretching on ProTools and Logic etc and you will incur the same artifacts, possibly worse. Neither of those programs even allows you to drag a bunch of clips in which are of different bit depth and sampling rates and play them on the fly, etc, etc.

Chillax dude. I'd be disappointed if you didn't chime in - we don't agree on some things but I'm not a hater...

[3phase]

true..thats a drawback of elastic audio...

but there are actually really people out there that just mix a few tracks without any warping and still experiamce abletons sound as harsher and less natural than when mixing a few tracks in another daw...
the phenomen is there... wrong usuage might be part of that... or bugs that sometimes keep the samplrate conversion allways on... ableton is not alone with that kind of bugs... a friend of me just tried samplitude..changed the speed..samlerate conversion kicked in..and he wasnt able to undo that by returning to the former speed...
dont know if that was bad usage or a bug or maybe his samplitude was even a hack and that was a copy protection cheme...

i only know that L8 has done such things to me..and i use an official version...


abletons samplerate conversion has become better.. what is the low quality mode now was the high quality one in earlier versions.. But i wouldnt mind an ultra high quality setting there... and the old lofi back..It was so bad that it was somehow funny.. the old high quality and now low setting is just useless because it has a really cheap quality that is not so bad that its fun again but not good enough to be used at all... and its not really safing much cpu..so why having it at all? compatibility reasons? i cant load my old live projekts that used the lofi SR...

[leisuremuffin]

Each to their own, m:o, but part of the problem is, where Villalobos needs 20-30 minute tracks to say something, others will need only 3-5 minutes.

meaningless comparison, time and speed of evolution are intentional choices that are in fact important.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV4hNSxvHzM

unfortunately there are no 6 hour long clips that i could find on the internet.



.lm.

[dum]

read the audio paper on L7 and 8

Non-Neutral Operations
Procedures in Live that will cause a change in audio quality are referred to as non-neutral
operations.

Playback in Complex Mode
(without even changing tempo)

Sample rate conversion/transposition

Volume Automation (Automation)
("certain implementations of automation envelopes can result in audible artifacts")

Dithering

Recording external signals (set bit depth < A/D converter)

Recording internal sources below 32 bit

Consolidate

Clip fades

Panning

Global Groove Changes

so, just avoid doing any of the above in live and you can be sure that the output sounds 'identical' to every other daw on the market.