Live's Midi Synch Issues/Bugs discussed on CDM

[siddhu]

My biggest complaint about Ableton is how poorly implemented/stable the midi synch is. For a piece of software that's supposed to be all about the live performance, synching multiple laptops running Live and/or with hardware is just such a pain to get rock solid.

Instead of adding more DAW-ish features in Live 9, can we please have a solid way to sync to computers running Live? Given where we are technologically, two (or more) instances of Live should be able to talk to each other over the network and even calculate a "joint" PDC for the whole system.

Create Digital Music has a great article that goes beyond just the issues with Live's midi synch, and explores what would be a proper future proof solution in 2009 for synching hardware and software together using modern technologies such as OSC.

Live Music Makers Ask: How Can We Get in Sync?

We really need to pressure Ableton to get their act together on this!

[steviet]

I written to ableton like so many others and never got a reply. The forum is full of unhappy users experiencing sync issues and seems to have been going on forever! Plenty of examples on youtube too. This is really ruining my live work and I wait in anticipation of each release and then nothing!!
I think I'm going to start writing to all the music magazines which constantly promote ableton through tutorials, etc. If enough of us start doing it, maybe they will take up with Ableton (because they won't respond to any of us). I know this is clutching at straws but...

[Tone Deft]

post your setup FFS.

you think they have some kind of crystal ball that peers into you studio? how can they fix what they don't know is broken? for some users it works, for others it doesn't, how can they figure out what the differences are?

what solely is whining going to do? take some action!!

[adventurepants_]

The conclusion Ive reached from the CDM thread is that anyone doing serious syncing is either

- using a dedicated master clock box of some sort,
- or to do it by ear/tempo and nudge or compensate like musicians and DJs do all the time.

ive been using the second route for recent jams, turning off clip quantisation and using the launchpad in real time, and nudging/retriggering as necessary.

The number of trainwrecks is decreasing as Im getting better at it, and the number of happy accidents that lead to something that sounds good and unexpected is off the meter.

[Spazi]

Funny you should mention this. I think the whole sync thing is over-rated. I mean, there are so many artists out there that uses Ableton live on stage to sync concerts and various gear.
I think there is a reason why they use Ableton!
One interview I remember about a artist that complained about sync issues was Deadmau5, but that was syncing over midi that wasn't stable when doing laptop to laptop. So he's syncing over LAN.
If I remember correctly that's what Daft punk does as well. Actually Daft punk sync their Lighting and analog gear through Ableton. So I guess it's not completely bollocks after all.
When syncing PC to PC use Lan, when slave-syncing other gear use Midi or USB.
To be honest, Midi has existed since the 80's and it's OLD now, so no wonder having issues when syncing through MIDI.
Hope they are going to make Midi 2.0 that they've spoken so much about, probably is gonna take 5-10 more years :S




" Ooooh crystal ball, crystal ball, save us all"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4vTL-XBz9o

Sorry, just had to!

[Tone Deft]

OSC

perfect for this in every way. no clue if max4Live will get this going I'm still learning.

[adventurepants_]

Funny you should mention this. I think the whole sync thing is over-rated. I mean, there are so many artists out there that uses Ableton live on stage to sync concerts and various gear.
I think there is a reason why they use Ableton!
One interview I remember about a artist that complained about sync issues was Deadmau5, but that was syncing over midi that wasn't stable when doing laptop to laptop. So he's syncing over LAN.
If I remember correctly that's what Daft punk does as well. Actually Daft punk sync their Lighting and analog gear through Ableton. So I guess it's not completely bollocks after all.
When syncing PC to PC use Lan, when slave-syncing other gear use Midi or USB.
To be honest, Midi has existed since the 80's and it's OLD now, so no wonder having issues when syncing through MIDI.
Hope they are going to make Midi 2.0 that they've spoken so much about, probably is gonna take 5-10 more years :S

I would have thought DP would be syncing everything to a high end rack clock unit and slaving Live to that. Im just guessing though.

[Spazi]

Aye, OSC is great!

[Tone Deft]

Funny you should mention this. I think the whole sync thing is over-rated. I mean, there are so many artists out there that uses Ableton live on stage to sync concerts and various gear.
I think there is a reason why they use Ableton!
One interview I remember about a artist that complained about sync issues was Deadmau5, but that was syncing over midi that wasn't stable when doing laptop to laptop. So he's syncing over LAN.
If I remember correctly that's what Daft punk does as well. Actually Daft punk sync their Lighting and analog gear through Ableton. So I guess it's not completely bollocks after all.
When syncing PC to PC use Lan, when slave-syncing other gear use Midi or USB.
To be honest, Midi has existed since the 80's and it's OLD now, so no wonder having issues when syncing through MIDI.
Hope they are going to make Midi 2.0 that they've spoken so much about, probably is gonna take 5-10 more years :S

I would have thought DP would be syncing everything to a high end rack clock unit and slaving Live to that. Im just guessing though.

nah, DATs are pretty stable.

[Spazi]

Well I don't know if they use a master clock, all I know is that they got two mac pro's synced together and what I read in a magazine, Ableton is the major key in their shows!
Converting Midi to DMX signal...

[adventurepants_]

Funny you should mention this. I think the whole sync thing is over-rated. I mean, there are so many artists out there that uses Ableton live on stage to sync concerts and various gear.
I think there is a reason why they use Ableton!
One interview I remember about a artist that complained about sync issues was Deadmau5, but that was syncing over midi that wasn't stable when doing laptop to laptop. So he's syncing over LAN.
If I remember correctly that's what Daft punk does as well. Actually Daft punk sync their Lighting and analog gear through Ableton. So I guess it's not completely bollocks after all.
When syncing PC to PC use Lan, when slave-syncing other gear use Midi or USB.
To be honest, Midi has existed since the 80's and it's OLD now, so no wonder having issues when syncing through MIDI.
Hope they are going to make Midi 2.0 that they've spoken so much about, probably is gonna take 5-10 more years :S

I would have thought DP would be syncing everything to a high end rack clock unit and slaving Live to that. Im just guessing though.

nah, DATs are pretty stable.

Lols. are we talking about DP or the Chem Brothers?

[Machinesworking]

I've written to them about it, but yeah Live and midi clock are not friends on my set up.
I can sync the DSI Evolver step sequencer as a slave to Digital Performer and Logic, but with Live there's issues big time:
doubling of notes, and obvious timing drift. I really hope there's an solution that works, though it might involve slaving Live to the MTP/AV.... blah.

[P9vyQ9Ev]

i have the same issues in my studio as well using ableton on stage with my xone 4D

in my studio i have my hardware setup midi connected to an amt8. when i play back the sequences in ableton the clock is just not stable and sometimes i get slight offs in the beats or other notes, when i switch to a hardware sequencer it plays rock solid for days and days, no glitches nothing.

when i set ableton as a slave to other midi gear my bpm flips from 20 to 999bpm and moves around like a madman, no music nothing .. and yes i have an original registered live 8 version, spent 350 on that.

i've tried many ways ... i absolutely like live as a program to work with audio but i'm getting frustrated and confused, there are so many artist that have their stuff working flawlessly so what do i do wrong in here?

why do people need external clocks etc when you've spent all that money on the famous all in 1 solution?

[Tone Deft]

please post your system specs. what computer you have, if you can post that chipset it uses I think that's helpful. also what devices are involved, how they're connected and what clock settings you use in Live. is it the same for Live as master and slave?

you should be open to the notion that it might be fixable by you with some setting you've overlooked. Live can be stable but it's known to also be unstable.

[4rest]

please post your system specs. what computer you have, if you can post that chipset it uses I think that's helpful. also what devices are involved, how they're connected and what clock settings you use in Live. is it the same for Live as master and slave?

you should be open to the notion that it might be fixable by you with some setting you've overlooked. Live can be stable but it's known to also be unstable.

i have NEVER had nor seen a stable clock with ableton
between ANY 2 devices on many different setups over the
last 5 years...mac to mac...mac to pc...any groove box
drum machine to ableton ..ect
no matter what i have used as a master or slave.

i have tried everything except midi time code

this really is a big issue with ableton!

for solo gigs not a problem
but i am in the process of putting together a new
project and trying to get the guys to BUY and run ableton
which is a very hard sell as the clock drifts on an
average of 1 to 8 bpm up or down....
which abletons looper doesn't like at all!!!

we are running the latest live demo so we are on the same page

i have been syncing machines for studio AND live use for
20 years ... not a noob
this bums me out as i LOVE ableton but this is really
not good for playing live...the work arounds i have used is
one person runs the rhythm parts and another keys, vox samples,
perc loops but not other drum loops.
but that is NOT live....
we want to all play...use looper....and be in sync


so we wait....and wait and one day maybe we will get real sync.

i think the whole root of this issue is when ableton first
coded live they had the "producer / one man band" playing live in mind
and over looked the sync issue.
maybe this would require a rewrite from the
ground up....like midi LFO's

just a guess...

lets see if max for live can resolve this but really
ableton should resolve this and not do anything else until
we have a stable clock....
read NO MORE "LOOK WE ADDED THIS STUFF GOOD LUCK SYNCING IT"