dj mixer to control live

scottanthony · Post by **scottanthony** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:21 pm

is it possible to control live through an external mixer that does NOT support MIDI? Or does it have to be MIDI baby baby yaaaaa

also im a bit confused about what soundcards do for you in live...i have one built in to my computer (does it have to be ASIO compatible(i dont know what that means anyway)).....is it recommended to get a good one or external one??
thanks for any help....you are all smarter than me in this
scoooooot

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:30 pm

you could run some test tones through the mixer, then get the mixer outputting to something like plogue bidule and convert the volume of the mixer into midi values...

scottanthony · Post by **scottanthony** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:35 pm

sorry sweetjesus, but everything you just posted went over my head...excuse my lack of knowledge
scott

kabuki · Post by **kabuki** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:40 pm

Mixer question: Must be MIDI

Soundcard: External soundcards may have more than 1 pair of outs (1 pair equals stereo sound = left and right channels). You want more than 1 pair so you can prelisten to audio before you play it out thru the main pair (like a DJ mixer allows you to do.) If you get a card/box, make sure it will run 2 or more pairs) separate audio signals. IMPORTANT: if the card has "zero latency direct monitoring" that usually means you are hearing the MAIN outputs direct from the card, and not a separate cue signal...

Boxes/cardsd to look at: any of M-Audio's Firewire boxes (avoid the USB Audiophile)

There are also a few MIDI keyboards that have Audio as well:
M-Audio Ozone and the Alesis Photon X25

Good luck

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:44 pm

basically i was suggesting that if you REALLY wanted to use the dj mixer, you could run some test sounds into it from either a permanent source or your soundcard, and then analyze the how loud those test sounds are in a program like Plogue Bidule (in realtime) and convert the loudness information into MIDI.

So your mixer is just turning a long *BEEEP* sound up and down, and depending on how loud or how quiet it is, software will respond to it accordingly.

LiveLong · Post by **LiveLong** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:03 pm

The single best thing you can do to really improve the sound quality and feel of your mixes and blends, is not to use a midi mixer. get a sound card with 8 outs, 4 stereo pairs and do the level mixing on a (good) dj mixer.
The sume of chanels to the master track in live, and most other digital mixing systems, is the weakest point so far. This is also for Pro Tools HD and the most expensive systems.
Midi mixing also have 127 steps, not the best resoliution for levels.

kabuki · Post by **kabuki** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:24 pm

LiveLong wrote:The single best thing you can do to really improve the sound quality and feel of your mixes and blends, is not to use a midi mixer. get a sound card with 8 outs, 4 stereo pairs and do the level mixing on a (good) dj mixer.
The sume of chanels to the master track in live, and most other digital mixing systems, is the weakest point so far. This is also for Pro Tools HD and the most expensive systems.
Midi mixing also have 127 steps, not the best resoliution for levels.

Isn'r Lives MIDI alll Hi Rez?

galo · Post by **galo** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:31 pm

sweetjesus wrote:you could run some test tones through the mixer, then get the mixer outputting to something like plogue bidule and convert the volume of the mixer into midi values...

how well does this work?, i am thinking of getting a u33 but this could save me the trouble

scottanthony · Post by **scottanthony** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:15 pm

LiveLong wrote:The single best thing you can do to really improve the sound quality and feel of your mixes and blends, is not to use a midi mixer. get a sound card with 8 outs, 4 stereo pairs and do the level mixing on a (good) dj mixer.
The sume of chanels to the master track in live, and most other digital mixing systems, is the weakest point so far. This is also for Pro Tools HD and the most expensive systems.
Midi mixing also have 127 steps, not the best resoliution for levels.

so are you saying that through a regular mixer(without midi), you can control live? where would you hook it up then on the computer?

galo · Post by **galo** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:25 pm

yes, if your soundcard has 2 stereo outs, you can connect each stereo out to a line in channel on a mixer and you will be able to use your mixer to control the audio being player out from live, it will not however control any of the controls that are on the screen

kabuki · Post by **kabuki** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:09 am

Only if Live will split the A/B channels to separate outs.

I don't think it does... does it?

LiveLong · Post by **LiveLong** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:34 am

Kabuki, Live's controlls are high resolution, most midi controllers are not. The ones are, are more expensive and most are like a recording console.
You can split the A/B, you need to send your tracks to seperate ch's in your audio interface. This option will open in the track's out menu only if you do have a multi out card.
scottanthony;
About how to work with a DJ mixer, you send tracks as a line out to the mixer, use live's faders as basic gain, just leave at 0db. you can also monitor from the mixer, and not "spend" ch from your interface.
You are not controlling live, you mix the audio after it comes out of live.
The way I have it now (I change sometimes) track 1,2 to buss1(track3)and out to the interface 1/2 outs

DJ mixer ch1. Tracks 5,6 to buss 2, out 3/4

DJ mixer ch2. all eff tracks, send returns, to out 7/8

DJ mixer ch3. Live's master to outs 7/8. I use it if I need more clips together w/ seperate control. for these I might use midi mix. I also monitor the browser from there. Hopes this helps.
Once you do that, you will feel the difference from mixing tracks to the master, or in the DJ mixer. You do need a good mixer to enjoy the benefit.

monkeyboy · Post by **monkeyboy** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:05 am

Kabuki,

Took me a little while to figure this out myself, but its fairly simple. I'm using a Firewire Audiophile with two stereo outs so they shows as 1/2 and 3/4 in Ableton

You need to show the in/out section on the session view. Then on the 'Audio To' dropdown, I choose channel 1/2 for Channel 1 and channel 3/4 for Channel 2.

I then run each channel into a separate line in on my DJ mixer. This means I can use the volume, EQ and crossfader controls on the mixer (getting round the crappy crossfader curve in Live too). I then then apply FX (normally Autofilter and Supatrigga) to each channel within Live itself before it goes out to the external mixer.

Hope that clears it up and makes sense!

dj mixer to control live

dj mixer to control live

over mi head