Have you bought M4L?

kb420 · Post by **kb420** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:02 pm

Thanks for the list stringtapper!

Slightlydelic · Post by **Slightlydelic** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:20 pm

Nick the Zombie wrote:I haven't bought it yet. The Beta was, as expected, quite overwhelming with all the possibilities. Something like Max/MSP is dangerous for me because I spend way more time tweaking patches than actually using them. That's obviously not a problem with the software but rather an issue with my own obsessive tendencies

I'm honestly still finding a lot of new life in the Suite instruments, so M4L is just going to be overkill at this point. I think I'll break down and grab it when the library of forumite-developed devices grows too big to ignore.

similar resons here, i just know it will be a huge distraction from actualy making music.

3dot... · Post by **3dot...** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:26 pm

liveAPI is cool and all... but.. as I stated earlier not gonna be an early adopter of M4L ...
I really REALLY like it btw ... it's the most elegant thing in the audio software to date...
I've actually built some great patches... but didn't want to get too attached to it....as I felt it made my Ableton Live experience quirkier...
there were added loading times...GUI problems ... and all the usual beta quirks ...etc.
I wanted to get away from that...
with Live7/8 initial releases I felt like an year long beta tester...
(the first REAL stable version for me was 7.0.15 ..and I was deep in L8 bugs by then..)
Max and Live are both 'mature' tools in their own right...
but imo the combination is not yet as... so I'm gonna wait it out...
basically... I've changed my software BUYING policy...
I'm gonna try to live with a delay of 1 year...(live 1 year in the past)
it's gonna be hard ...

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:31 pm

3dot... wrote:I've changed my software BUYING policy...
I'm gonna try to live with a delay of 1 year...(live 1 year in the past)
it's gonna be hard ...

I'm struggling with this dilemma too, I enjoyed the beta of M4L more than i thought I would and even managed to hack together some usable tools. I can't see myself ever becoming a power user of it though and am also pretty fed up with diving in on a new release too soon only to see 'price incentives' for 'brand new customers only' 6 months later when it's actually stable.

I'm sooo tempted to get it though, must resiiiist.

Emissary · Post by **Emissary** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:37 pm

3dot... wrote:I've changed my software BUYING policy...
I'm gonna try to live with a delay of 1 year...(live 1 year in the past)
it's gonna be hard ...

I do this with most technology these days (except live)

I Live a year in the past, you get everything far cheaper and more stable. OSX, Windows, DVD's, Games, Phones (actually about 6 years in the past). Plus people look at you as if your insane, which is well worth the admission fee.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:38 pm

Nick the Zombie wrote:I haven't bought it yet. The Beta was, as expected, quite overwhelming with all the possibilities. Something like Max/MSP is dangerous for me because I spend way more time tweaking patches than actually using them. That's obviously not a problem with the software but rather an issue with my own obsessive tendencies

yes, I agree. This is the reason I too am a heretic and haven't bought it.

My tendency to sit and while away a winter month or two "just getting that patch right" is not beneficial to me.
Most of my daytime is spent 'programming' and 'problem solving', and that is just so logical it is driving me crazy.

I realised that I needed to make my music creating a much more 'emotive' process, I can't handle spending further hours in the land of "oh it's simple, just expand the class and get that to inherit from the clup_farb() library, which must be downloaded from #resource_fac, see tutorial for KLE32 expansion on resource.org archive " etc. I just can't take it. That's not what music making is FOR for me. My aims for next year are to get more emotion into my music, and make it more evocative. I think learning a high-level programming language is probably not the best way for me to do that.

So, I'll stay clear of M4L for a while, I'll stick to playing lap steel instead

Martyn · Post by **Martyn** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:39 pm

An interesting take on it all at CDM for those who haven't read it (apologies if it's already been posted)

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/11/2 ... #more-8422

Some truths in there.

meic · Post by **meic** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:40 pm

Emissary wrote:
3dot... wrote:I've changed my software BUYING policy...
I'm gonna try to live with a delay of 1 year...(live 1 year in the past)
it's gonna be hard ...
I do this with most technology these days (except live)

I Live a year in the past, you get everything far cheaper and more stable. OSX, Windows, DVD's, Games, Phones (actually about 6 years in the past). Plus people look at you as if your insane, which is well worth the admission fee.

+1

thelizard · Post by **thelizard** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:51 pm

Yeah, I bought it right away. Hell, I had been using Live 7 until the moment the public beta opened, and then I reached into the savings and upgraded right away (The Able10 discount helped). If I didn't already own Max, and hadn't been using it frequently for over a year, the price would've completely scared me off (In fairness, it's similar to the price of Reaktor standalone, and less than the cost of Max standalone, but it's still damn intimidating. $99 was a no-brainer, though).

The real tipping point for me was the fact that I was able to take machines that were relatively worthless, convert them to m4l, tempo-sync them, and automate them in a short amount of time. That, plus all of my favorite tools from Pluggo Jr. were part of the package... and modifiable! FilterTaps has long been one of my favorite secret weapons, so it's great getting a look at its guts.

What's funny is I spent most of my time in Max using Jitter, as I was more inclined to use Reaktor for sound generation. Now that MIDI and Transport settings are synced to Live (and that I can open up all of the provided Pluggo patches), I'm spending much more time with MSP and MIDI generation/modification. I haven't even touched using Jitter inside of Live yet, but I'm quite excited.

synnack · Post by **synnack** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:57 pm

I bought it. CPU not nearly as hungry as what I was expecting. Have experienced crashes though, but still loving it.

I think the answer to the "is M4L for me?" question is pretty simple.

If you use Ableton Live and thought to yourself at some point that you wish it did something that it didn't do, and that you could see yourself building that functionality yourself if only it was easier to integrate sometihng like Max into the workflow, Max for Live is for you.

If you're an artist working in Max/MSP/Jitter and have thought to yourself that you wish you could leverage sequencing, preset management, and time sync of more standard music applications such as Ableton Live. Max for Live is for you.

If you are bored with the the built-in Live devices and think $300 USD is reasonable to get a handful more, and possibly even a TON more from places like maxforlive.com, Max for Live is for you.

If none of those 3 conditions exist, Max for Live is not for you. The most likely reason is the third example applies to you but $300 is to high of a price to justify it.

synnack · Post by **synnack** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:48 pm

btw, I've also been loving the shit out of the fact that jitter objects work in M4L.

I have several devices built that listen for data on normal audio and midi tracks and send bangs to another device which uses those bangs to play video effects in real time for a loaded video clip.

Completely synced video effects even when the music is changing on the fly. Fun shit.

4.33 · Post by **4.33** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:36 pm

tempus3r wrote:btw, I've also been loving the shit out of the fact that jitter objects work in M4L.

I have several devices built that listen for data on normal audio and midi tracks and send bangs to another device which uses those bangs to play video effects in real time for a loaded video clip.

Completely synced video effects even when the music is changing on the fly. Fun shit.

that is so awesome, will these be featured in the www.maxforlive.com library?

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:48 pm

I got it too. I think I'll slowly work my way through the tutorials as the winter and bug hunting progresses. I know that if I do ever dive in and then run into a bug, it's going to put me off the whole thing forever

Slow and steady, maybe this will all make sense one day.

LoopStationZebra · Post by **LoopStationZebra** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:05 pm

Still waiting, lol. *shrug* There's just not enough 'playable' patches via the Launchpad/monome/etc yet. I'm sure that'll change soon.

Hermanus · Post by **Hermanus** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:18 am

mdk wrote:C?

are you working on embedded systems or something?

Really the basis for the moment.
DevC++, I'm going to try CodeBlocks which seems better for coding.
I'm working on exercices such as build a clock program and so forth

so I'm only a BEGINNER at the moment_
If the cursus goes well, I could complete with some java lessons_For object oriented

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