how to create loops from the floor up

[Gygaxian]

greetings,
I've posted this same topic in a number of other forums as well because it always reveals some good ideas.

if you are likemyself, and tired of loop libraries, then you have probably took it upon yourself to make your own. from rock to Aphex Twinish type beats, I was wondering what advice anyone could give to someone who is new to creating unque drum beats/loops.

this does not have to be Live specific either, I'm just looking for some good input and options for creation.

thanks all!

[MrYellow]

I like playing with the midi for the Dr Rex in Reason.

You can move beats around and make long patterns from short loops,
you can then also make several tracks including a 32nd note snare roll
and all that kinda thing.

Also found this Live method to be great.

http://virtualturntable.org/archives/000187.php

-Ben

[sqook]

Call me crazy/stupid/whatever, but I like making them by hand in a wave editor. Recently, I've been using adobe audition, which has really come a long way in the last few years... I'll usually just drop in everything to get the beat "feeling" right, and let ableton's timewarps correct the slight inaccuracies in my placement. Plus, I'm a bit biased against computers... sometimes, they're just a bit too perfect, and I've found that I like the music I write more when it has a bit more of a dynamic and random side to it.

[globalgoon]

try and reproduce one of the stock loops.

(1) set up your vsti percussion on one track(or a group of tracks). Assign these to crossfader channel "A".

(2) Put your stock loop into another track and assign it to crossfader channel "B".

(3) Now set up a midi fader as the crossfader.

(4) Build your loop with vstis. Use the crossfader to quickly flip between the loop you're making and the pre-made loop (for comparison).

(4a) spend at least 2 hours working solidly on trying to replicate the pre-made loop

(5) do this with 20 different loops over 20 days.

(6) compare the first loop you made with number 20.

(7) is there a marked improvement?

(8) If yes, then you are on the right track

[ConneKted]

When you listen to a clock, you hear Tic Tac Tic Tac. This is your brain playing tricks on you, the clock isn't really making a Tic Tac Tic Tac sound. In fact it is making a TIC TIC TIC sound.

I like to use exactly that ''creative'' part of my brain. I take 2 factory beat loops and let them play in sync. In addition I add a third loop, but this time it's not a beat loop but a music loop. I let it play and play and play, and i just listen. AND THEN IT HAPPENS !! My brain begins to ''create'' sounds, just to not-go-crazy on that repetetive sound.

And then there comes the hard part. It's those sounds i wish to capture. So then i take my microfoon, hit the record button (have to be quick or else that feeling is lost), and i beatbox away.

After that i delete the original factory loops. And with cutted samples i try to imitate/recreate the piece i beatboxed.

Now i created MY OWN beat, ain't it ?

(perhaps a bit strange on the theory, but hey, it really works for me)

[cyclyk]

Feedback
bugs
failures
internal laptop noises
noises

[Angstrom]

the clock isn't really making a Tic Tac Tic Tac sound

er, yes it is !
the Tick-Tock sound is a product of the escapement mechanism which is a pair of levered hooks that release the energy in pulses to the hands - whether it is batery or spring powered.

anyway - loops:

Years ago I analysed what it was that made loops have some kind of edge over drum machines ... so that I could combine that technique into my programming.

Effectively if you hear a drummer play a kit next to a bass player - every time the bass hits a certain note the snare will rattle, it may also resonate the toms .. the kit will also resonate itself a bit. These days engineers try and stop this kind of stuff happening but back in the day (argh) on those old records they just stuck a couple of mics in the direction of the rhythm section with a big compressor on.
IMO this is why modern loops lack something that the old breaks have, the modern engineers just can't set stuff up badly on purpose!

On a cheap old 45 the drum kit could be in front of the piano due to lack of space in the studio. That piano is going to resonate!

the interaction between the 'loop' elements of resonance reverb and ducking of the compressor gives the listeners brain a sense of 'this is really here' .
I generally try and emulate what happens when real things are recorded and apply that to artificial sounds to make them seem realer to the subconcious.

[ConneKted]

WOW !!!

love 2 learn that !!

[hoffman2k]

I've been making template's for loop creation ever since i got Live.
My recent addiction is making beats with several simplers and operators that all respond to velocity plugins. This actually allows me to do stuff like turning up the cutoff and resonance of a sound while I'm turning the velocity lower. All done with one knob or slider.

By the time Ableton has figured out how to let us save tracks with other routed tracks as preset. I'll have a whole library of interactive loops.
A loop may be great. But it's nice to still have the source material of a loop so you can tweak it a little more. One loop can become 10 loops in no time. Then when you finally exported 10 loops. You can make a live set where you make another 10 variations of one of those loops........

Globalgoon's suggestion about re-creating stock loops is a great idea to get you started on your own stock.
If you could add note's in Live as easily as programmers can add note's in their code, we could make open source loops

[polyslax]

I have about 100 cassette tapes of things I've recorded between 1975 and 1995, so often I'll start with a sample from one of those. I'm talking everything from TV to banging things in the house to odd bits of radio to playing guitar to messing with sound on sound and my voice to actual tunes. The music ranges from all guitar to all electronic. I used to own a Strat, a Tele, a Twin, an M1, a TG77, an Ensoniq VFX, a Wavestation, an R8 and bunches of fx, so there's a fairly big variety. (I'm all soft now with the exception of an acoustic/electric Ovation which I just jack in to the back of my Mac)

So, I like to start with a chunk of sound from the archives, and mess with it, then build. I like to listen for things with varying rhythms to syncopate and create a "greater than the sum of its parts" scenario. I'll continue to layer parts until it feels right. Sometimes you come out with a winner and sometimes it's a disappointment, but I consider it all moving forward and learning regardless of the outcome.

Another thing I like to do is record a bunch of stuff on the fly in Live, so I end up with say 200 bars, then use the loop markers to create a 1 or 2 bar loop and start fishing for something interesting in the performance.

[Diskclaimer]

All these posts are awesome!!! N'est pas?

[gaspode]

Value your mistakes... often I have tried playing a beat into live at the wrong tempo, and with live's auto quantization you can get some very interesting looping beats that you may never have created otherwise...

Trying to replicate other people's work is also a good way to understanding how people put things together. If you take a drum loop break it into parts in impulse and then see how accurately you can reproduce the loop. Once you have it reproduced it is just a matter of adding in your own samples or flourishes to make it your own...

I would say this goes for melodies and such as well... if you have a melodic loop with a clean note or two in it... put that into simpler and see if you can reproduce the melody. Granted it won't sound the same, and some notes may be a bit distorted, but this can add flavor to an otherwise bland loop. If nothing else you may have a new and interesting instrument to play with... If you find good looping points it is possible to turn a piano melody loop into a solid bass sound for example...

Play with envelopes a lot... I'll often load up a loop and play with the transpose and sample offset to make some very bizarre sounds... this works with effects to, you can have some sort of mega distortion and turn it on and off for different beats...

Take midi progressions and play them into a completely different instrument... this can lead to interesting loops...

Drop a reverb bomb on your audio that is completely wet... see what kind of bizarre pads/textures come out the other end.

Go through your sample collection and pick sounds you would never use... at that point you know you are very unlikely to make them worse, discover ways to make them sound better.

Look into extremes... don't just distort something... completely destroy it and see if you can salvage the pieces... take a 120 bpm loop and make it play at 2bpm... or 900bpm... push that volume knob *all* the way up... eq everything but a sliver of the sound... use so much feedback that all you get is grungy noise...

Greg

[Diskclaimer]

I like to take a pocket sized audio recorder with Me when I go out (rarely),
this can lead to some totally surreal stuff if You forget that its on.......
Like the time I went to see (THE MIGHTY) Squarepusher in NY city.....
We took a train down there from CT getting all kinds of crazy audio......
then after the show (recorder still on) no more trains were running so.....
had to take a taxi home!!!!!!!

The next day, listening to the file I hear Myself going into an ATM where
this bum (Dharma?) asks Me the time and I slurr back that I dont know.......

Well You get the point......

Sometimes what I think is pure noise and rumbling in the file can be
warped into a very cool organic beat.

[Machinate]

Right, guys...
I was going to wait a while before sharing this with you, but this seems like the right time

I recently did a live template, where you can just drop any sample into a slot and it'll spit new beats out. Of course there is a whole bunch of variation to be had, and you can get really creative with it.

Specifically, it automates a lot of sends, that break up the audio into steps and transmit them to different filters, which again can be sent to reverbs or whatever. In a way it's like a poor-mans anarchyrhythms, but these sends split into different busses for extra possibilities.

It's really not as complicated as it sounds, because I've already set up different step-sequences for you to try out, again, just drop in a sample and you're off. Anyway, I like it for instant samplechopping. No installation required, just a decent computer and Live

For your free downloading pleasure I bring you:
The SendMangler

Bjorn, thanks for the upload

Cheers,
Andreas / Machinate

[Diskclaimer]

Wow christmas in March?