Keeping Ableton intime with live band.

[yur2die4]

I might be willing to pay to see someone try to actually get away with performing with a live band using the tap tempo. hahaha

I'm pretty sure it would end with a smashed computer and some crying..

[transology]

+1 !!

I might be willing to pay to see someone try to actually get away with performing with a live band using the tap tempo. hahaha

I'm pretty sure it would end with a smashed computer and some crying..

[outershpongolia]

using the looper effect to catch live tempo is much more effective.. I used to put it on a dummy track and just use the multi-function button to punch in and then punch out.. it would get the right tempo 9 out of 10 times and you'd just clear the looper until you need it again, it wasn't actually looping anything but silence, just pretty much 10 times better than tap tempo and you only touch it twice..

[malutki]

Wouldn't a MIDI mapping to the TAP tempo button work?

This only works if your kick drum is constantly 4/4 as off beat hits will alter the tempo.

An not even thinking about kick-drum breaks, silence, groove changing lol. And this would be way too responsive.

aha, nonono

I was thinking more of an extra pad the drummer can hit in quarternotes whenever he has time to update the tempo,
or heck, give a big bad button to every band member!
they listen to the drummer as usual, and play silent taps to Live every now and then...

I'll admit I haven't tried that in real life, but in my thoughts it works perfectly


BKeeper looks freaking amazing though.
So if you get it set up correctly, nobody has to worry about anything,
and the drummer plays what he wants?

[transology]

That's brilliant and simple
I should have thought about it !!

Thanks

using the looper effect to catch live tempo is much more effective.. I used to put it on a dummy track and just use the multi-function button to punch in and then punch out.. it would get the right tempo 9 out of 10 times and you'd just clear the looper until you need it again, it wasn't actually looping anything but silence, just pretty much 10 times better than tap tempo and you only touch it twice..

[nafe]

i think it is important to view using ableton with other musicians like trying to beat match a turntable with another or with a drummer.
my method is
Tap tempo untill it consistantly shows about the same number. assign a midi slider to the fine bmp adjust like a pitch adjust on the turntable. nudge buttons essential.
I quite like it because it does require some listening and timing skills that everyone has to learn when they first start djing or playing with other musicians. ableton seems to let you forget about timing if you are using it alone or have it synced to another computer.

[outershpongolia]

That's brilliant and simple
I should have thought about it !!

Thanks

using the looper effect to catch live tempo is much more effective.. I used to put it on a dummy track and just use the multi-function button to punch in and then punch out.. it would get the right tempo 9 out of 10 times and you'd just clear the looper until you need it again, it wasn't actually looping anything but silence, just pretty much 10 times better than tap tempo and you only touch it twice..

I don't know why I didn't post this sooner,

I set it to a sustain pedal so I could punch in/out with my foot. I guess your drummer could do this with a pedal or a pad and not have to use the annoying tap tempo, or maybe another band member could do it

[transology]

I tried it and it only works the first time your are making the loop. After this one time, the looper doesn't care about matching the tempo it just follow the master tempo that it previously set

Even if I "clear" the loop, I doesn't work. I need to delete the plug-in, import Looper in my track again ... Haaarrh. I just want to change the tempo on the fly !!

We gonna do it !

I don't know why I didn't post this sooner,

I set it to a sustain pedal so I could punch in/out with my foot. I guess your drummer could do this with a pedal or a pad and not have to use the annoying tap tempo, or maybe another band member could do it

[outershpongolia]

Yeah that was the biggest snag.. if you stop playback completely, not just stop all clips, then you can clear it and start over but this doesn't work if you're not able to stop Live's playback completely..

[malutki]

hm.
I'm as interested in cool technical solutions as the next guy,
but just so I learn something here:

what IS wrong with the tap tempo?

[transology]

It's not a bad idea. Like you says.

It could be nice to have the dedicate TAP trigger on the KickDrum. PLUS, have an (another trigger) for ON/OFF "Tempo TAP". At this point this making a great solution and I know how to do it. Gonna test for sure !! Give me time .. time time time ..

Thanks "malutki" for having triggering the ideas

hm.
I'm as interested in cool technical solutions as the next guy,
but just so I learn something here:

what IS wrong with the tap tempo?

[yur2die4]

The problem with tap tempo is almost the same as with Looper. Every time you use it, you are committing to a new linear timeline. And then another one. And then another one. I don't like the idea of risking hitting tap tempo every 16 bars.. or even Every bar (which uses up a limb which could be applied elsewhere!). The reason why i said 'risking' is because tap tempo is only as accurate as the person hitting it... and the tools that you are using. If you expect the drummer to hit it, you could be cramping their style. If you hit it yourself, it depends on the type of button, your timing of the perception of the playing of the drummer, the monitoring system, and even delay in your audio setup. Heaven forbid you miss a beat...

It is not failsafe, it is barely accurate, and hitting it all day long is a waste. The results would be far from tight. (If you want to test it out, try tap-tempoing to a free-playing led zepplin or black sabbath song without faltering beginning to end).

Humans playing to a drummer tend to think in tune with each other.. humans know how to follow a beat.
Computers don't yet discern that from pure audio quickly and with accuracy (b-keeper being the exception).
Unfortunately this thread is not about a drummer keeping tempo with a computer.. which is way easier, but annoying and cold if you are a drummer haha. Otherwise tap tempo/looper/click would be more realistically applicable.

[malutki]

The problem with tap tempo: Every time you use it, you are committing to a new linear timeline. And then another one. And then another one.

OK, I am starting to see...
The timeline should be as liquid and flexible as audio in Live and tempo in a band situation.

And a count in at the beginning of each section or so is likely still to rigid,
so this might call for a practised dedicated computerjockey nudging back ad forth like nafe said, unless...

you are saying BKeeper really works?
With the free runtime and a MIDI loopback?
Could it work with m4l?

[transology]

It was programmed with Max and the plug-in is free to use in Ableton without the need for Max4Live.

Could it work with m4l?

[malutki]

But B.Keeper is not a plugin, is it?

I thought the patch runs outside of Live, what with all the routing necessary and whatnot?

so I was hoping if B-keeper was m4l-ed you could just drop it on a track as an insert and bang away on those drums