Help required-sending master out to external FX and back in!

DJ Release · Post by **DJ Release** » Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:54 pm

Hello

Hope someone can offer some advice!

I'm using a laptop with an echo indigo in/out (1 in/1 out) and i'm trying to send the master out of one of my tracks to my kaoss pad - SEE HERE http://www.zzounds.com/item--KORKP2 to add effects and then back in to be recorded in real time.
I use a small mixer - SEE HERE - http://www.8thstreet.com/prod.asp?pid=22275 but the problem is i'm getting a terrible feedback when i try and do this and figure it is something to do with live or my soundcards settings (as opposed to the Kaoss pad or mixer) but i'm damned if i can suss it out!

Is this even possible in real time - have any of you guys sent the output of a playing track thro an external device and recorded back at the same time on similar setups?

Thanks

Release

Moonburnt · Post by **Moonburnt** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:25 am

You're bound to get feedback because the master bus is by definition the end of the Live signal chain, so recording it and putting it back into the mix, which then goes through the master again = feedback.

To get around this, you have to stop the kaoss returns from reaching the kaoss ins. With the card you have, you could acheive this by sending your indigo's stereo out into the kaoss pad, then on the track that is recording the indigo's inputs, mute it so it doesn't feedback.

Moonburnt · Post by **Moonburnt** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:39 am

Actually, to be able to still hear it, your mixer will need to feature in this too, eg:

Indigo stereo out --> Kaoss pad --> ch1&2 of mixer
Mixer line outs --> Indigo ins (with live's recording track muted)
Mixer monitor outs --> amp/speakers --> ears

DJ Release · Post by **DJ Release** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:24 pm

Hi Moonburnt,

thanks for the reply

I've got it set up just as you have described but i didn't have the recording track muted - when i do the feedback doesn't go it just changes, it gets a bit quieter but still not good!

Just to clarify what i've got i've modified your table as below

Indigo stereo out --> Kaoss pad --> CH3 of mixer (stereo line input)
Mixer Record outs* --> Indigo ins (with live's recording track muted)
Mixer monitor outs --> amp/speakers --> ears

* for any of the mixer tracks to send a signal to the record out you have to activate the red record button to send that channel to the output bus - that's when the feedback starts - prior to this i'm hearing it as i should but lives not getting the signal.

I'm thinking it's got to be a setting within live or my soundcard! In Live i've got track 1 playing a clip with no input and track 2 set to ext.in with monitor on record enabled and the track muted.

Any other ideas please

Cheers

Release

acidpimp · Post by **acidpimp** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:39 pm

for what you ar trying to do, you really need a multi in / out ASIO soundcard.

i use an m-audio delta 10/10lt (not too expensive), and i'm constantly running things out of live and back in again with no latency issues. i even automate my external devices with live.

if your sound card only has 1 set of outs- that's it- that's your master out, your only option is to run it into your kaoss pad, and run the output of your kaoss pad directly to your monitors, but NOT back into live, as this will only be re-feeding itself into your kaoss pad, which may sound really cool, but only for 3 minutes.

being familiar with the kaoss pad, it is my opinion that live's built in effects sound better anyways, so what i would do is use your kaoss pad as a midi controller to controll whatever effect you want to use in live. there is a detailed explanation of how to do this in the users manual.

Moonburnt · Post by **Moonburnt** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:01 am

Odd that you are still getting feedback when the fx return is muted - like you say, that probably suggests it is something to do with the soundcard itself, eg if a mixer applet was included with the indigo drivers, there may be options to automatically monitor the input independently of software, by feeding the input signal directly to the output of the card's DSP. If there is a mixer app for the card, any option like that should be deactivated. A multi I/O card would certainly make life easier but it *should* be possible to achieve it without one.

DJ Release · Post by **DJ Release** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:24 pm

Thanks guys - i've got a pretty clued up mate calling round next week and he seems to think it will be possible but i don't know what to think now!

acidpimp sounded pretty convincing there

Yeh i've used the KP2 as a midi controller now & then for lives FX but i feel the KP2 has so much to offer for adding subtle or drastic bits of ear candy over a playing track. At the moment i will write a track to cd and play it back in thro the KP2 from a cd player but it would be so much easier to effect the track in real time.

Release