serious crash/disk corruption, Live/OS 9

os · Post by os » Mon Jan 13, 2003 8:25 am

Just mailed this to Ableton support, but I thought I'd post it here too in case anyone can suggest anything to help.
cheers,
os.
-------------------
I'm having serious problems with recording audio in Live. Essentially, what happens is that when I terminate the recording (by pressing the "stop clip" button for the track that is recording) the whole computer hangs, and renders the machine unbootable. To recover, I have to boot from a CD and repair the damage. This happens pretty much every time.

I'm using Live 2.01 (I also tried 1.51 but the same thing happens) under Mac OS 9.2.2, on a PowerBook G4, 667MHz, 512MB.
My audio hardware is the Metric Halo Mobile I/O, with the latest firmware and drivers.

vaturbo · Post by **vaturbo** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 11:06 pm

I am also having this same problem. It happens every time I use live 2.0 and about every third time in 1.5. I don't have to start up off the system disk but my machine has been taking a long time to finish start up. It used to run through the disk repair and claim to repair the disk but it hasn't done it recently. I have a g3 500mhz w/os 9.0.4 with a motu 828. This problem was happening to me before I got the 828 and before I installed live 2.0.

Let me know what you find out. I'll do the same

pe| · Post by **pe|** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 12:54 am

hi

i got the same problem like os....but just one time...

the 2.time, live send's a message,that it not find the "undo.cfg" file...?

powerbook G4/400Hz
carbon lib. 1.6
os9.1
live 2.01
motu 828

pe

Post by **Alex** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 8:58 pm

Hi all,

sounds like several problems. We have found an embrassing recording related bug in Live 2.0.1 which depends on the 'Monitor trough Live' flag in the audio preferences. If you record from 'Live in' and this flag is off you'll get a freeze on OS 9. If this flag is on it works well on my G4.

So please try if you problems are related to the 'Monitor trough Live' flag or not.

regards,
Alex

os · Post by os » Sat Jan 18, 2003 9:54 am

Alex...
as I recall my "monitor through Live" flag was on.
Also this crash happened in Live 1.5.1 as well as 2.01.
I'll test it again later though.
cheers,
os.

os · Post by os » Tue Jan 21, 2003 9:22 am

An update: I decided to take the rather drastic step of wiping my harddrive & re-installing everything. I had a load of disk errors that Norton couldn't fix, and it was all a bit messy, so it seemed like a good idea. It also gave me the opportunity to partition my harddrive - separate bootable partitions for OS 9 and OS X, and another for data.
Anyway - so far so good. I'm keeping the OS 9 partition really clean - just a basic install of OS 9.2.2, plus Live 2.01 and a few VST plugins (Hyperprism mainly). I've not really given it a hard test, but the Live set that would consistently crash it before (as described below) seems to work OK.
As I say, so far. Will continue to stress the system & see how it gets on.
cheers,
os.

Post by **Alex** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 4:14 pm

Hi os,

thanks for your efforts on this point. Sounds still strange enough but I know that you'll let us know if this problem comes back.

thanks and regards,
Alex

3phase · Post by **3phase** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 6:50 pm

since i was forced to move to OS x i have big problems, i wasnt able to get a stable system sofar.
My new powerbook g4 1ghz refuses to install a clean 0S 9. ( The stabelest one i got is a straight copy of the os 9 sysFolder to an clean partition and removing everything that contains the word classic in it).
First i had the impression of a pretty stable Live 1.52 under osX only some problems with the beta driver of my hammerfall drivers. The i moved to V2.0 and trouble starts. Hammerfall drivers are updated now but now there are troubles on the midisync side. The new drivers for the midiinterfaces might be the problem or live 2.0 or both together,
The only thing i know after another wasted night is that there are big preference conflicts between Live 1.52 and 2.01 under os x
The try to go back without removing live 2.0 leaded into the worst performance i ever had. reinstalling after removing the live 2.0 parts i found in application support and prefference folders, ( maybe i havent found all) leaded now to wrong midiclock sync of live 1.52.
reinstalling of live 2.01 after removing the 1.52 prefs has unstable behaviour now...crashes during midisync for example.
i just download your japanese version and will wipe my disk again...
but i might better go straight back to 1.52...
what is the best taktik to get back to music quickly???

Post by **Alex** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:09 pm

Hi 3phase,

Sorry but I'm a little confused and have not totally understand all of your problems.

If you install Live 2 it copies the preferences from an existing 1.5 installation into his own 2.0.1 folder but preferences from 1.5 doesn't affect Live 2. To clean the Live 2 preferences you have just to delete the ...\ableton\Live 2.0.1\Preferences\Preferences.cfg".

Which hammerfall OS X driver do you use? I checked with the driver from 17.01 where RME is saying "No MIDI".

Is the performance with Live 2 worster than with LIve 1.5 if you use the Hammerfall in both versions?

regards,
Alex

3phase · Post by **3phase** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:08 pm

i had the impression tht installing live 1.5 after live 2.01 on osx leaded to additional troubles, i use the hammerfall driver from 17.01 now but it seems to be more a problem on the midiside.
i had problems with syncing live after i moved back to 1.5. 130 bpm clean clock was intreprated as 99.
moving than back again to live 2.01 leads in better performance but i had unexpected crashes.

Post by **Alex** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 12:42 am

Hi 3phase,

I'm just wondering how it's possible to use MIDI if RME says about the driver 'No MIDI'. Or Do you use another Midi interface?
If you don't get Live in sync with MIDI clock as my teammate Eduard ([email protected]).

Please give me also more details about the crashes you have on OS X, because what we don't know we cannot fix.

regards,
Alex

3phase · Post by **3phase** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 11:07 pm

Live 2.0 crashes when the monitor thru flag is not set , under os 9 and os x.
Ocassionally it crashes under OS X without a reason...
It turns out that there is a Bug or conflict with the new Hammerfall Dsp drivers under 9 and X.
At least when i dont have an hardware problem on my mainboard..what is a possibility aswell...but the computer works fine for all other purposes.
I run in the moment only the internal audioengine on Osx.
Live is more stable then..but still no audiolatency compensation possible.
Midiclock output jitters and drifts, as it did in v1.
Midiclock input is tight on os 9 with midex 3 but only if hammerfall mididrivers are not installed.
I use a midex 3 for clock in and an emagic mt 4 for controllers.
Powerbook G4 1ghz, OS 9.22 and OSX .23. Propper installed on fresh formated drive. Hammerfall dsp propperly flashed ..drivers installed in a clean way after zapping p-ram and nv-ram. i tryed everything...bugs or hardware conflict with the new powerbooks ?

The new hammerfall drivers seem to be allwright in the first moment but performance drops from time to time so that audio cant play anymore. OS 9 and os x.
Emagic Logic looses also performance with the new hammerfall drivers..(around 8 platinum verbs instead of 18 on OS 9)
Do i have a hardwareproblem or are just all companies releasing macbugs in the moment? Seems that things are turning around..PC the stable audiosystem versus crashing Macs ?

3phase · Post by **3phase** » Mon Jan 27, 2003 11:48 pm

Midi sync in with midex 3 works only on clean bpm values, 121 for example works 121,1 drifts. a good sync algorythm is one that is not to slavish...its horrible when the tempo jitters...a little drift sounds much better. but as a real drummer is doing it...every 1,2 or 4 bars we have to meet the 1 again...therfore a good sync algorithm should interpolate in a way that it corrects on or toward the 1, not a permanently never meeting recalculation as logic is doing. Jitter is noise and have to be avoided. a drift that is resettet on the one could be called groove.

on the midiclock out side: Midi clock should be generated on the root of all timing processes...better before the sampleclock source. a clock impulse is allowed to happen between 2 samples. certain tempos that match the sampleclock should be highlighted (see sci drumtracks that only supported tempos where it was able to run straight). clock calkulations should be done with at least 24-32 bits..not in the low priority ways todays sloppy midisequencers are doing it. Look at the Akai Mpc 3000..a machine that gives a straight clock..and reacts straight to a clock...under os x it should be possible to achive such a thing with software.
Just my opinion, but i dont know to much about theese issues.

Post by **Alex** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 3:15 pm

Hi 3phase,

if you have crashes on OS X please send me the coressponding crashlog file. Mostly it helps us a lot to get closer to the problem.

regards,
Alex