I'm using Live 8.1 with POD Farm and i recently purchased the metal shop pack for pod farm thinking it would give me a more beefy heavy sound. So far i've managed to get a few nice tones going, but its not quite right. I'm using my Fender Strat on the bridge pickup, i've picked the heaviest amp i could find and whacked a noise gate on it. Anything else i could try to fill out the metal sound? and is there anything i could do with the audio effects? I usually put analogue warmth mastering effect over everything but would be great if anyone could suggest anything else to try.
Have a few tracks up online, check them out at
http://www.reverbnation.com/mashedtunes
How do i get a really heavy guitar/bass sound?
Re: How do i get a really heavy guitar/bass sound?
I usually can achieve a meaty sound on Guitar by layering a whole lot of guitar parts.
Just basically play the same parts over and over again with different types of distortion.
I usually do a few passes with Guitar Rig then I do a few with my external effect units.
Using a really huge heavy sound straight up usually doesn't create that huge sound. It is usually better to layer medium heavy sounds over and over.
Just basically play the same parts over and over again with different types of distortion.
I usually do a few passes with Guitar Rig then I do a few with my external effect units.
Using a really huge heavy sound straight up usually doesn't create that huge sound. It is usually better to layer medium heavy sounds over and over.
Re: How do i get a really heavy guitar/bass sound?
define "heavy", first of all.
Assuming you mean semi-straightforward, modern-day heavy metal (ex. Mastodon) and not wall of fuzz doom or some kind of spastic tech grindmetal or black metal or something here's what I'd do.
stay away from the high gain amps, or at least dial the gain waaayyy back. Amp gain not only tends to make guitars sound thin in recordings, but fairly muddy as well.
Do two+ passes on your guitar recordings, assuming you're a pretty good guitarist that can play the same thing repeatedly to a click. Even if you're a great guitarist, the small nuances and natural chorusing created by guitars in 'unison' makes things 'heavy'. You can play around with different amps and/or different settings for each take. Play around with panning from there, I DO NOT recommend hard left and right panning if you're only doing 2 passes, because if there is any palm muting that is only slightly off, there will be a short but VERY noticeable imbalance in your stereo 'field'.
Things I like to do with PODfarm:
If you're just messing around or trying to get some ideas down that sound good, but dont care if you're recording in a 'destructive' manner (in the sense your guitar SOUNDS are set in stone, apart from post production EQ etc.) I'll just setup PODfarm on a channel, with input monitoring enabled and output set to sends only (but dont actually feed it to any of the sends). Then I'll create a few new audio tracks, set their inputs to your channel with the PODfarm track and output to master. record enable the first of the group of 'empty' audio channels and record, when you're done stop, turn record enable off on that channel and enable the second channel and so on.
You can toy around with PODfarm's stereo setup, it works pretty well but I'd try throwing a little chorus on one channel or a really short (12ms or so), zero feedback 100% wet digital delay on one of the left or right channels.
Another thing I've done that works great is use the same amp sim setup for two passes, but switch between the bridge and neck pickup on each pass
I can't stress enough to turn down the gain, all of my PERSONAL favorite modern recorded tones are usually on jcm800 equivalent or less in terms of amount of gain. You dont need a triple rectifier or uberschall or equivalent with the gain maxxed. Also, turn the bass down, guitarists love their bass... trust me, I know I do, but for a proper mix you need to let the bassist have that frequency spectrum, you dont need super thumpy, farty bass in your guitar tone. If you're one of those guys into the 80s randall or equivalent tone (or one of those 16 year old kids attempting to shred on that godawful crate halfstack) with the mids cranked in that upper mid frequency band that sounds like a can of bees, you're shit out of luck...it sounds like ass, turn your mids down... but mids are important, thats where guitars are supposed to dominate, but know when to back off. adjust highs and presence to taste, but i prefer darker guitar tones unless its a textural, high pass overdub type of moment.
With ALL THAT said, there isn't a 'right' way to do it. You need to experiment. I've spent a good 10 years developing a set of ears for the tone I like... yours is probably different.
Assuming you mean semi-straightforward, modern-day heavy metal (ex. Mastodon) and not wall of fuzz doom or some kind of spastic tech grindmetal or black metal or something here's what I'd do.
stay away from the high gain amps, or at least dial the gain waaayyy back. Amp gain not only tends to make guitars sound thin in recordings, but fairly muddy as well.
Do two+ passes on your guitar recordings, assuming you're a pretty good guitarist that can play the same thing repeatedly to a click. Even if you're a great guitarist, the small nuances and natural chorusing created by guitars in 'unison' makes things 'heavy'. You can play around with different amps and/or different settings for each take. Play around with panning from there, I DO NOT recommend hard left and right panning if you're only doing 2 passes, because if there is any palm muting that is only slightly off, there will be a short but VERY noticeable imbalance in your stereo 'field'.
Things I like to do with PODfarm:
If you're just messing around or trying to get some ideas down that sound good, but dont care if you're recording in a 'destructive' manner (in the sense your guitar SOUNDS are set in stone, apart from post production EQ etc.) I'll just setup PODfarm on a channel, with input monitoring enabled and output set to sends only (but dont actually feed it to any of the sends). Then I'll create a few new audio tracks, set their inputs to your channel with the PODfarm track and output to master. record enable the first of the group of 'empty' audio channels and record, when you're done stop, turn record enable off on that channel and enable the second channel and so on.
You can toy around with PODfarm's stereo setup, it works pretty well but I'd try throwing a little chorus on one channel or a really short (12ms or so), zero feedback 100% wet digital delay on one of the left or right channels.
Another thing I've done that works great is use the same amp sim setup for two passes, but switch between the bridge and neck pickup on each pass
I can't stress enough to turn down the gain, all of my PERSONAL favorite modern recorded tones are usually on jcm800 equivalent or less in terms of amount of gain. You dont need a triple rectifier or uberschall or equivalent with the gain maxxed. Also, turn the bass down, guitarists love their bass... trust me, I know I do, but for a proper mix you need to let the bassist have that frequency spectrum, you dont need super thumpy, farty bass in your guitar tone. If you're one of those guys into the 80s randall or equivalent tone (or one of those 16 year old kids attempting to shred on that godawful crate halfstack) with the mids cranked in that upper mid frequency band that sounds like a can of bees, you're shit out of luck...it sounds like ass, turn your mids down... but mids are important, thats where guitars are supposed to dominate, but know when to back off. adjust highs and presence to taste, but i prefer darker guitar tones unless its a textural, high pass overdub type of moment.
With ALL THAT said, there isn't a 'right' way to do it. You need to experiment. I've spent a good 10 years developing a set of ears for the tone I like... yours is probably different.
Re: How do i get a really heavy guitar/bass sound?
thanks for those tips guys!
Tromo, the heavy sound i want to go for would be a mix of some meshuggah, a bit of mastodon and a little dream theater for the solos. I've so far been trying panning 2 tracks left and right, and whopping the bass in between them, the problem i tend to face is, when i get a nice guitar sound in podfarm, and start tracking the guitar it all sounds great, then i finish the take and listen back, it sounds like its being played in a goats rectum. so i apply the panning, and it gets more of that beefy tone i like, but its still not right.
Now, this reducing the treble? i've tried reducing it a bit, but i can seem to make the squeels as wild without treble. would something like a tube screamer counter that?
I've thought about layering the tracks up, but i was trying to write my stuff as it would be played live (3 guitars, Bass, drums and pre programmed midi) so was really hoping there was a way to use some sort of production technique to nicely smooth them off, but if you guys swear by layering, i shall give it a try and see what i come up with.
Tromo, the heavy sound i want to go for would be a mix of some meshuggah, a bit of mastodon and a little dream theater for the solos. I've so far been trying panning 2 tracks left and right, and whopping the bass in between them, the problem i tend to face is, when i get a nice guitar sound in podfarm, and start tracking the guitar it all sounds great, then i finish the take and listen back, it sounds like its being played in a goats rectum. so i apply the panning, and it gets more of that beefy tone i like, but its still not right.
Now, this reducing the treble? i've tried reducing it a bit, but i can seem to make the squeels as wild without treble. would something like a tube screamer counter that?
I've thought about layering the tracks up, but i was trying to write my stuff as it would be played live (3 guitars, Bass, drums and pre programmed midi) so was really hoping there was a way to use some sort of production technique to nicely smooth them off, but if you guys swear by layering, i shall give it a try and see what i come up with.
Re: How do i get a really heavy guitar/bass sound?
This is what you want. Drop these VSTs on your clean guitar tracks. Play around with the channels and drive. You will be able to achieve some heavy distortion and amp modeling. Best of all, its free. http://www.kvraudio.com/get/465.html
Re: How do i get a really heavy guitar/bass sound?
Try this
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov09/a ... videos.htm
You could also try pushing some of your channels out to a send channel using a high pass filter high up and applying some saturation if you want to maintain a little bit of that high end and give it some bite at the same time?
If you want to cheat you could even try some heavy sounding fuzz synth and blend that in there ever so slightly to get that nice heavy sound? It is really about layering and using what is at your disposal. I have some tracks with up to 8 channels playing the same guitar part and a heavy synth sound in their for flavour.
But of course it depends on how much of a purist you are and it comes down to taste.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov09/a ... videos.htm
You could also try pushing some of your channels out to a send channel using a high pass filter high up and applying some saturation if you want to maintain a little bit of that high end and give it some bite at the same time?
If you want to cheat you could even try some heavy sounding fuzz synth and blend that in there ever so slightly to get that nice heavy sound? It is really about layering and using what is at your disposal. I have some tracks with up to 8 channels playing the same guitar part and a heavy synth sound in their for flavour.
But of course it depends on how much of a purist you are and it comes down to taste.
Re: How do i get a really heavy guitar/bass sound?
If you've tried all the effects and cabs maybe your missing the simple but effective 'palm mute'?
A lot of the hard edged metal guitar sounds come from technique more than equipment.
(That being said my favourite setting right now is the Jerry Garcia on Amplitbe II)
A lot of the hard edged metal guitar sounds come from technique more than equipment.
(That being said my favourite setting right now is the Jerry Garcia on Amplitbe II)
Re: How do i get a really heavy guitar/bass sound?
That's your problem mate- get something with humbuckers if you want more beef.Mashup wrote:I'm using my Fender Strat
Strats, whilst great, just aren't enough to rip your guts out unless you crank them, which, as has been said, ruins the recording tone.
And again, layering is key. Smashing Pumpkins reportedly used up to 60 guitar tracks on bits on Mellan Collie and the Infinite Sadness- just listen to 'Bodies' off disc two and you will hear it.
Re: How do i get a really heavy guitar/bass sound?
yup, layer the parts if you want phat. just like vocals. That includes strats!
you don't even have to change tone/amp/guitar or whatever. just record the same part again and layer.
To be sure, copying/pasting the same recording will definitely NOT get it phat
you don't even have to change tone/amp/guitar or whatever. just record the same part again and layer.
To be sure, copying/pasting the same recording will definitely NOT get it phat
Re: How do i get a really heavy guitar/bass sound?
kinda on an unrelated note but:
how is PODfarm?
new to Live, just bought live 8 suite, and was going to use a lexicon omega to run my mic'd amp into live. Recently moved, *real* amps are still back in CA (I am in NM), and all i have is a little bitty vox 15 watt practice amp.
Is PODfarm really that good? I don't mind shelling out the $$ if I am getting something that won't make me feel like I wasted my money on something that is definately not as good as the real thing.
any feedback appreciated.
how is PODfarm?
new to Live, just bought live 8 suite, and was going to use a lexicon omega to run my mic'd amp into live. Recently moved, *real* amps are still back in CA (I am in NM), and all i have is a little bitty vox 15 watt practice amp.
Is PODfarm really that good? I don't mind shelling out the $$ if I am getting something that won't make me feel like I wasted my money on something that is definately not as good as the real thing.
any feedback appreciated.
"There is dignity and deep satisfaction in facing life and death without the comfort of heaven or the fear of hell and in sailing toward the great abyss with a smile."
Re: How do i get a really heavy guitar/bass sound?
Fender strats are a weak in comparison to alot of other guitars. If you are looking for that stomach shreding sound you will be luck to get it out of a strat.Mashup wrote:I'm using my Fender Strat
But....
If you layer enough and also tinker with your pick up positioning you maybe able to fill it out alot. Along with changing the tone/distortion models.
Re: How do i get a really heavy guitar/bass sound?
Listening to your song "missing days" and am digging it. nice job mate
"There is dignity and deep satisfaction in facing life and death without the comfort of heaven or the fear of hell and in sailing toward the great abyss with a smile."
Re: How do i get a really heavy guitar/bass sound?
if your going to beef up yer rails look into humbuckers with a coil-tap - best of both worlds.
Re: How do i get a really heavy guitar/bass sound?
I agree. Very nice. You have talent, my friend.Fraeg wrote:Listening to your song "missing days" and am digging it. nice job mate
-Wotan
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Dell XPS One 27 - Intel Core i7-3770S @3.1GHz, 16G RAM, 1.8TB HDD, Win8 Pro, Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Axiom 49, Live 8.3.4
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Dell XPS One 27 - Intel Core i7-3770S @3.1GHz, 16G RAM, 1.8TB HDD, Win8 Pro, Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, Axiom 49, Live 8.3.4
Re: How do i get a really heavy guitar/bass sound?
yep. this may be the most notable ingredient regarding the texture of that distortion. drop G is waaaay down there, and the slack on the low string will produce a distinctive feel through any drive effect.