Backwards compatability

[morbid]

Hi

I realise I can't open entire projects made in 8 in my copy of 6, that sort of makes sense.

I thought I could save warp markers though ie. A mix Ive done in 8 and saved individual songs warp settings then individualy open each song again in 6 - no warp information is saved.

Am I missing something or are the warp engines that different. The thing I dont get is that Im only using re-pitch which I naively assumed would be the same across both platforms.

I don't want to have to rewarp all my tracks.

Help me or laugh at me please

[8O]

Yes, warping changed in Live 8 -> http://www.ableton.com/pages/live_8/ann ... nt/warping - I guess you have to rewarp...

[3phase]

its not possible to open a file created with L8.1 in 8.0..

so you have to either render them all.. or redo them all.. at least for percussiv loops that use beat warp mode and are pitched that can lead to a better sound qualiy because you can switch the looping of the warping off now..

I wonder if it really would have been sooo damn difficult to include a routine in the program that just places the transient markers on the 16th in an L8 clip.... all loop markers stay the same..
if some fx translations are difficult..ok..than its not an exact backward compatibility..but you at least can have your audio open..

Same with L8.1 to L8.0.. whatever they have changed there.. there is no damn reason that you cant at least access your core audio/midi content in the prior version .. ok there is one.. again there is no.. safe as L8.0 file function or conversion utility...

Theese details suggest that ableton dont cares much about the pain theese changes create for the user..
Especially on a super buggy platform

I´snt there a supersmart coder out there that can write such a routine? nobody knows the interna of the program except the ableton guys?
i am sure they dont like to spend theire freetim to eliminate that flaw..
If they wouldnt need all the resources for bug hunting and L9 development, what probably commes with an improoved more stable NEW fileformat again....
They would have made us a conversion routine on cost of the company... I am so very sure about that ;-/

only problem.. the conversion has to convert .asd files into .asd files


I still wonder how they could have changed the fileformat so drastical without using a new ending like .asd2 or so..

Does this create costs for software companys to intruduce new file names? like registering a web domain?

there would have been so many practical benefits in introducing a new name for the new format..

its really strange..


However..when all bugs are fixed we probably dont need a downward conversion anymore..

except it comes out that older versions are much better cpu wise..and load much faster..


A professional program actually have to offer downward compatibility to at least to the previous version..

Logic was doing that.. cubase was doing that.. the option ..Save as xxx file...

MAybe with L9 Ableton should start to include such a downward safe as new standard menu item.. for all the future file format changes...

[john doe by choice]

Backwards compatibility simply isn't as profitable as disregarding backwards compatibility, bottom line.

[3phase]

Backwards compatibility simply isn't as profitable as disregarding backwards compatibility, bottom line.

I am not so sure about that.. that bad immage ableton has with me now is mostly based on that single fact.. the bugs was very annoying.. but thats the shit that happens.. torture by design or biz reasons is another pair of shoes..

[Shillelagh Law]

Backwards compatibility simply isn't as profitable as disregarding backwards compatibility, bottom line.

i agree, it's aggressive marketing.

[digitalgeist]

It's such a pain in the dick though when you have somebody that actually uses the same platform as you (Ableton) but using 8.x.x when I've created my masterpiece in 8.y.y to tell them they need to upgrade because my project was made and saved in a version that worked for me.

I don't normally go on about things that bug me in software but this one keeps coming up since I bought Live 7.

[john doe by choice]

In that instance, it could be that progressing within a version (usually meaning a free update, anyway) means that Ableton may have found a new approach to the file format that would make things more efficient in the long run - in the realm of free updates, there is probably a good reason for the lack of backwards compatibility from 8.1 to 8.0.9, considering it is a free update. However, backwards compatibility from version to version, like from 8 to 7, isn't a profitable feature to provide.

[3phase]

In that instance, it could be that progressing within a version (usually meaning a free update, anyway) means that Ableton may have found a new approach to the file format that would make things more efficient in the long run - in the realm of free updates, there is probably a good reason for the lack of backwards compatibility from 8.1 to 8.0.9, considering it is a free update. However, backwards compatibility from version to version, like from 8 to 7, isn't a profitable feature to provide.

what are you talking about a free update? i paid 129 euros allmost a year ago for a working L8.. and this is still not delivered...

free updates? fixing one big bug but bringing 3 smaller ones in in exchange and in the middle of production another fileformat thats not backwards compatible... thats mean..sorry..
free update pffff...

[Shillelagh Law]

free update pffff...

ya, I too find it completely insane when people talk about bugfixes being 'free' updates...
some are even grateful

[john doe by choice]

In that instance, it could be that progressing within a version (usually meaning a free update, anyway) means that Ableton may have found a new approach to the file format that would make things more efficient in the long run - in the realm of free updates, there is probably a good reason for the lack of backwards compatibility from 8.1 to 8.0.9, considering it is a free update. However, backwards compatibility from version to version, like from 8 to 7, isn't a profitable feature to provide.

what are you talking about a free update? i paid 129 euros allmost a year ago for a working L8.. and this is still not delivered...

free updates? fixing one big bug but bringing 3 smaller ones in in exchange and in the middle of production another fileformat thats not backwards compatible... thats mean..sorry..
free update pffff...

Try reading what I wrote again: what I said is that it is a free update from 8.0.x to 8.1 - I didn't say anything about a free upgrade from version 7 to version 8.

You might want to work on your english a tad before flying off the handle about something that you misinterpreted.

As for bugfix vs. update, I'm just using the terminology as Ableton uses it.

[LoopStationZebra]

free update pffff...

ya, I too find it completely insane when people talk about bugfixes being 'free' updates...
some are even grateful

Is this your face right now? lol.

[3phase]

Try reading what I wrote again: what I said is that it is a free update from 8.0.x to 8.1 - I didn't say anything about a free upgrade from version 7 to version 8.

You might want to work on your english a tad before flying off the handle about something that you misinterpreted.

thats exactly what i understood..and i said that there is no point in beeing thankfull for a "free" update that instead fixing all the bugs just inflects even more and bigger problems.

Theese windy "Quality" anouncement just after that little crime dont makes it undone..

it wasnt the kind of update useres can avoid..

1) is was crashing all over before
2) it was endangering the pa systems and ears of the audience, musicans can be sewed for such "accidents"
3) main promised functionality wasnt included before L8.1

bringing a new file format in such a situation is rather ruthless..

sorry... i am really not thankfull for that free update.. which anyway came muc to late..
that should have been the update 2 month after release..than your point maybe would have been valid..and the harm done by the formerly created content in L8.0 would have been not as big...

[john doe by choice]

I never said you should be thankful, or anything about stability, for that matter. Quit being pissed off at people who aren't saying what you say they are saying, go be pissed off at the people who did whatever they did to you to make you pissed off.

And since you're probably not going to understand this post, either, I am now going to back out of this thread.

[3phase]

I never said you should be thankful, or anything about stability, for that matter. Quit being pissed off at people who aren't saying what you say they are saying, go be pissed off at the people who did whatever they did to you to make you pissed off.

And since you're probably not going to understand this post, either, I am now going to back out of this thread.

can you say this again more quickly or maybe rap it?
but wouldnt make your point valid regarding the topics.. users experiance problems with file format changes.. and when theese fileformt changes happen every few month there is something going wrong and the creator of the problem should care about a solution for the problem.. otherwise people get pissed off