30 days sober

[Machinesworking]

Thanks, great way to end that thread.
3dot is a total idiot about addiction, knows absolutely nothing, but getting in a flame war with him is a waste of time, and undermines the honor of the thread.

I used to chair an AA meeting, for about 5 years, and there's not a single bit of doubt in my mind that 3dot currently is struggling with addiction, everything in his posts reads like denial. Seen it over and over again.

Obviously I see value in AA or I wouldn't be going but I do struggle with some of the intense attitudes with some people in the program, bordering on fanatical Scientology. Having problems with the program? Get audited/go to another meeting.

I was having somewhat of a text argument with my sponsor last night. I'm not drinking and not tempted to drink really and am fine with going to a meeting or two a week, but he wants me to go to 3 or 4 a week at all costs. That was after I put my foot down that I'm not doing the 30 in 30, honesty with myself and others. I see the program as something I should be involved with but if I am generally having an ok time with not drinking why force myself to spend so much time on the subject? I would definitely go more if/when I'm struggling with alcohol.

I'll put it an easy way on this forum. If you're really enjoying working on a song and alcohol is the furthest from your mind, why should you interrupt that to go an AA meeting?

I'm just saying it's this attitude that can scare people completely away from the program when even smaller doses could help them out on some level.

That post of mine was not thought out on my part, and I would have deleted it if you and 3dot hadn't quoted it...

but your question is really very, very valid! AA sort of thinks it's the cats meow, without really having the statistics to back it up. All methods of quitting have almost exactly the same recidivism rate, 14% AA is a tool to use, the dogma is annoying at best, and potentially mentally damaging at worst. AA doesn't work any better than other methods, but the fact is human beings are social animals, we can of course use pure will power and sound mental thinking to keep from drinking at bars etc. but AA can provide a heavy drinker with a few friends of associates etc. who don't drink, thus making it easier to not feel isolated.
The AA meeting I chaired was an Atheist Agnostic one, I've never read the Big Book all the way through, never had a sponsor, and never did the 12 steps. I've been off drugs and booze for 11 years now. When I said "Take what you can and leave the rest!" I wasn't kidding. IMO the best way to stay sober is to ask yourself if what you're doing is going to drive you to, or away from sobriety. I was asked to join a metal band as the second guitar player 3 months after I quit and decided that I was taking a much worse chance of going back to drinking if I declined, knowing full well that all three of them drank like fish and smoked weed like dragons. 11 years later I was right, I'm certain 90% of the sponsors out there wouldn't have approved.
There is no 'way' to quit, there is no method that's 'better', not being a wreck on drugs is the goal, the rest is unimportant IMO. <-- that is why I was dogging on 3dot, because he thinks there is some method of choice that's the cure. The cure is the cure, I don't give a rats ass about the method. Far too many spiritual path seekers fail, far too many people spend far too much energy trying to moderate themselves to prove absolutely nothing IMO. My relatives mostly quit drinking on their own and have been successful at it, I have one friend who uses the church etc. in the end I have no right to judge the method.

Basically, you know what you need to do to stay sober, if you ever go back out, you chose to. It's that simple really. My personal take on it is that I need to keep that in mind, it's not at all about pure willpower or deferring to a higher power, it's about realizing that though the chemical aspect of addiction is definitely there, it's the psychological part that's the hardest to deal with.

[JuanSOLO]

^ word


A friend of mine I met at meetings started a Hardcore scene in Abilene fucking Texas? He quit going to meetings but he has his shit together, and gives kids something to do in A town.

I agree, the method is not as relevant as the results. The point is to get results, results YOU want. It's your life, spend it as you wish.

[aisling]

about 21 years ago I was at an aa meeting in atlanta, when 2 "rockers" walked in......I had no idea who they were but was annoyed that all the girls were clamoring around them. Turned out it was a couple of the guys from Aerosmith (considering they were proud of their recovery efforts, I think it is ok to name drop). I never stayed with the aa program but those 12 simple steps were my first orientation to "spirituality and accountability,".....in an agnostic concept.

[beats me]

Tomorrow night should be a big test. 2 bars without drinking. At one bar a friend's cover band is playing and at another a friend of a friend is DJing. I don't think it will be a test in not drinking, but more of a test of how long I can go before I am bored or annoyed. It won't be an all nighter.

One of my friends going just informed me that him and his long time girlfriend broke up to which I responded "That sucks. I quit drinking a month ago." I'm sure that was a crushing blow considering I was the go-to party guy when his girlfriend would release him and I'm sure he's looking for that kind of night out more than ever.

[derzai]

Time for the devil to get into this discussion.

Its not about staying sober all your life, or being drunk everyday, you got to peak, thats the fun.

Once a month, or 3 times a year, you let it all go. Then dont just drink a beer or two, that would be still moderate and boring.

When you peak you go for it, take care everything is there in abbundance, a couple of liters of vodka, mushrooms, mary etc.

Forget about your agenda, forget everything,

[Jacqueslacouth]

I offer congratulations to ANYONE who maintains sobriety IF that is what they seek. However, I will lay my cards on the table, I get drunk once a week, I mean absolutely blotto. I lock myself away in my studio with a bottle of Jack every Friday and generally polish it off before bed time. I am 43 now, I started getting drunk at 13 back in Scotland as a young lad. There were periods in my life where I pretty much got plastered every day (from around '96 to '99).

I don't drink to be social (I have drank by myself most of my life), although in my teens to twenties it was more social. I absolutely love getting drunk, I always have, given the choice of hot sex or a bottle of bourbon good tunes and no hassles, I go the grog route any day. I have held down a decent enough job for 20 years and have even achieved promotion as a Head Teacher of Science. The grog has never affected my performance at work (ok, maybe there were a few serious hangovers in the 90's).

I come from a long line of alcoholics (Scottish, Irish, Geordie Heritage) and I probably havea problem according to AA, however, I HONESTLY see it more as a lifestyle choice. I NEVER drink drive, I don't drink in front of another human being, my grog bill ALWAYS comes after EVERY family need has been met...and at the most basic level, I am a happy, peaceful, cuddly drunk.

All said and done, I have utterly no desire to stop drinking, I enjoy it but THAT said, I utterly admire the steps taken by ALL those determined to quit the booze if they see it as a distraction to living their life.

[beats me]

I offer congratulations to ANYONE who maintains sobriety IF that is what they seek. However, I will lay my cards on the table, I get drunk once a week, I mean absolutely blotto. I lock myself away in my studio with a bottle of Jack every Friday and generally polish it off before bed time. I am 43 now, I started getting drunk at 13 back in Scotland as a young lad. There were periods in my life where I pretty much got plastered every day (from around '96 to '99).

I don't drink to be social (I have drank by myself most of my life), although in my teens to twenties it was more social. I absolutely love getting drunk, I always have, given the choice of hot sex or a bottle of bourbon good tunes and no hassles, I go the grog route any day. I have held down a decent enough job for 20 years and have even achieved promotion as a Head Teacher of Science. The grog has never affected my performance at work (ok, maybe there were a few serious hangovers in the 90's).

I come from a long line of alcoholics (Scottish, Irish, Geordie Heritage) and I probably havea problem according to AA, however, I HONESTLY see it more as a lifestyle choice. I NEVER drink drive, I don't drink in front of another human being, my grog bill ALWAYS comes after EVERY family need has been met...and at the most basic level, I am a happy, peaceful, cuddly drunk.

All said and done, I have utterly no desire to stop drinking, I enjoy it but THAT said, I utterly admire the steps taken by ALL those determined to quit the booze if they see it as a distraction to living their life.

I love the effects of alcohol in that moment and relatively speaking I've had more goods than bads when drinking, but the problem is I just don't get anything done while drunk, nada. And if I drink a lot that just means I'm not getting anything done. In a twisted way it's been a motivator at times. I'll hurry up and get something done so I can get started with the drinking, but while I'm drunk it doesn't spark any kind of creativity other than elaborate opinion dissertations.

On an AA topic.....

Last night I was telling my sponsor I take issue where the big book tells you that your higher power can be anything you want it to be, including the group itself, and doesn't have to be the God of organized religion, but from that point on in the book it almost always says God, He, or Him when referring to the higher power concept. I don't care who you are, this always conjures up the image of a man in the clouds and blocks out whatever your concept of a higher power might be.

He said it's because it's just easier to word that way, but I told him to look at it a different way. Let's say the subject wasn't a higher power but world leader. It could be any world leader or your concept of a world leader but from that point on we're just going to refer to that concept as Hitler. We're not talking about Hitler but we're just going to use that word. Now try to picture anybody other than Hitler when you read the word Hitler. Good luck.

[djsynchro]

Of all the drugs I have taken and there have been a few I find alcohol to be the most boring & depressing, I don't like the fact that you can't walk straight anymore nah not my thing. Only good thing about it is that it is readily available in even the most retarded of countries like the USA.

[derzai]

Of all the drugs I have taken and there have been a few I find alcohol to be the most boring & depressing, I don't like the fact that you can't walk straight anymore nah not my thing. Only good thing about it is that it is readily available in even the most retarded of countries like the USA.

You will even find it in Mekka, the most retarded of all. Or did I say hypocrite?

[derzai]

Last night I was telling my sponsor I take issue where the big book tells you that your higher power can be anything you want it to be, including the group itself, and doesn't have to be the God of organized religion, but from that point on in the book it almost always says God, He, or Him when referring to the higher power concept. I don't care who you are, this always conjures up the image of a man in the clouds and blocks out whatever your concept of a higher power might be.

Identification.

I solved this for myself by imagining God as something like a vacuum.

Works for me.

[beats me]

Of all the drugs I have taken and there have been a few I find alcohol to be the most boring & depressing, I don't like the fact that you can't walk straight anymore nah not my thing. Only good thing about it is that it is readily available in even the most retarded of countries like the USA.

Somebody in Amsterdam saying alcohol is boring and depressing. Ya think?

All drugs and alcohol have different effects on different people and from what I've seen alcohol hasn't the fullest range of the lot.

[beats me]

Last night I was telling my sponsor I take issue where the big book tells you that your higher power can be anything you want it to be, including the group itself, and doesn't have to be the God of organized religion, but from that point on in the book it almost always says God, He, or Him when referring to the higher power concept. I don't care who you are, this always conjures up the image of a man in the clouds and blocks out whatever your concept of a higher power might be.

Identification.

I solved this for myself by imagining God as something like a vacuum.

Works for me.

There's the possibility that the higher power is on some other plain of existence in a form our minds can't even comprehend. Maybe there's many plains of existence our energy goes through and we don't know which level we are on now or what came before or what will come next. Sometimes I just feel like man came up with God because it's easier to comprehend on some levels.

[derzai]

Somebody in Amsterdam saying alcohol is boring and depressing. Ya think?

Muslim immigrant issues.

[derzai]

Last night I was telling my sponsor I take issue where the big book tells you that your higher power can be anything you want it to be, including the group itself, and doesn't have to be the God of organized religion, but from that point on in the book it almost always says God, He, or Him when referring to the higher power concept. I don't care who you are, this always conjures up the image of a man in the clouds and blocks out whatever your concept of a higher power might be.

Identification.

I solved this for myself by imagining God as something like a vacuum.

Works for me.

There's the possibility that the higher power is on some other plain of existence in a form our minds can't even comprehend. Maybe there's many plains of existence our energy goes through and we don't know which level we are on now or what came before or what will come next. Sometimes I just feel like man came up with God because it's easier to comprehend on some levels.

Metaphysics.

I just try to be there without thinking about what God would be.

[Machinesworking]

There's the possibility that the higher power is on some other plain of existence in a form our minds can't even comprehend. Maybe there's many plains of existence our energy goes through and we don't know which level we are on now or what came before or what will come next. Sometimes I just feel like man came up with God because it's easier to comprehend on some levels.

Straight atheist here, no interest at all in making a deity out of the universe, and giving it a personality of any kind, or of pondering whether there is an afterlife, all seems really pointless to me. My take is to just realize that most people need a god to exist to feel comfortable and like something is looking after them etc. I don't have to like that, but to constantly question or badger people about it is pointless.

In AA I've always felt the same way about it, that people need something besides themselves to prop them up. People come into AA feeling all beaten down like a dog etc. completely convinced that they couldn't possibly take control of their own addiction themselves without some divine intervention, so higher power guy does it for them... It's great for the people who need it I guess? but if western civilizations infatuation with the concept of grace pisses you off like it does me, it's best to find meetings that don't stress that stuff.