Smart-Mixing Vs. EQing???

[spiffy1661]

So I've been messing around with this smart-mixing concept and at first glance it seemed to be pretty nifty--you can duck the low end frequencies of one of the tracks and basically replace them with those of another track, and since compression (supposedly) doesn't color the sound, the mixing should be..better..blah blah blah. Maybe I'm not applying the right frequency cut-offs, etc. but I always seem to get some sort of ghastly volume dropoff SOMEWHERE when I'm crossfading or adjusting the faders or whatever; and the compression DEFINITELY colors the sound of whatever track its supposed to be working on, albeit differently from eqs..and perhaps, to my ears, more undesirably. (and yes, I have tried out all the different types of crossfaders with the smart-mixing technique) Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have my tracks sound a little cluttered and busy because of competing frequencies during my transitions then lifeless and vapid because of the compression I've applied. To make things even more confusing smart-mixing's creators claim that it wasn't actually even meant to REPLACE eqs but simply to be another tool in your arsenal, etc. but..how exactly would you apply traditional eq techniques and get it to work smoothly with these new smart-mixing techniques? I haven't yet found a way to use both and get the kind of sound I want while mixing.

Has anybody else tried out smart-mixing and gotten similar results? Does eqing seem like a better way to mix to anyone else? Also, if you ARE using eqs to mix, which ones give you the best results...ableton's eq 3, eq 8, tarekiths dj eq, etc. and what settings do you generally use (low frequency at 250, etc.)

Sorry to clutter up this post with so many confusing thoughts and ideas but I've been making the transition from torq/xponent to ableton and really want to try and figure out the best way to mix on live..thanks in advance for all feedback

[shamburglar]

I'm not sure what you're talking about with this "smart eq".. I'm intrigued what is it?
I've been real happy with a an eq 3 on each channel assigned to midi knobs... plus buttons assigned to the frequency kill switches to kill bass/treble etc... this seems to kill the bass sufficiently to bring in a new bassline.

Also and I just discovered this the other day.... but the crossfader has a lot of different modes... very worth investigating depending on how you like to mix.

[trevorc]

i've mainly seen smart mixing set-ups as a proof of concept kinda thing - it's technically possible to do it so people have done it. i've heard a couple of mixes which have used it and i've not always been that convinced about the sound, as with any transition style there are times when it will work with some tracks but not with others. if you're mixing two full basslines there can be a nasty spot mid-transition and if you're mixing two tracks with basslines at unequal levels you can get a drop when you don't want one..

for even blends between similar tracks sure it sounds ok, nothing exciting there. but there are times when you might want two complementary basslines working together at the same level, and times when you might want to kill the bass for a bar or two before bringing in bass from another track, so it's not going to make for varied and interesting transitions if you use it all the time.

i'm not sure what the point is of incorporating smart mixing with normal eqs either, it replicates the simplest possible transition style anyway so why would you bother?

as for other eqs, i use nice clean eq8s for studio mixes and tarekith's adapted eq8s for live stuff - definitely the cleanest and most effective i've come across for dj work.

[jrab227]

i prefer regular eq'ing. anyways. the ducking is only appropriate for pre-arranged, pre mixed clips. also, the kicks in a track have a decent range, so if the kicks are up in the lower mid section, it's very difficult to bass duck. to properly do it, you need a function to tell the compressor where to duck. i just end up eqing anyways. after trying to smart mix tracks to a "kick" track, i found it ends up sounding very stale.

[spiffy1661]

Thanks for the replies guys, been very helpful--went back to the eqs after messing around with the smart mixing thing and i'm definitely liking what i hear. I'm trying to decide between using jeremy jives eq and tarekiths eq 3.2

on an unrelated note, what kind of limiter (if any, I suppose) do you guys put on your master track during a dj set, and what sort of settings do you use? I use the dj master output and turn the output for both my decks way down to avoid clipping. I also use ozone from time to time but there are so many different settings to tweak on it that i feel like the sound can't help but be colored by it. any thoughts or suggestions on how to make sure the final levels for a mix stay nice and loud and undistorted?

[Da hand]

I personally do not use any effects on the master channel. I do not need a limiter as I always use a DJ mixer and the mixer has plenty of room for any stray peaks that may appear on the output.

[mnmlmike]

Smart mixing definitely is a challenge to pull of correctly. Especially since there are so many different ways to go about it. Really what someone needs to make is a light weight SIDECHAIN MULTIBAND COMPRESSOR. I've only seen one of these and it's not out yet.

http://www.vengeance-sound.com/eng/VPS.html

If lives Multiband had a sidechain input we'd be golden but sadly I don't think that's the case.

Another interesting concept to think about is the rare "Dynamic EQ" The only one I know of is the Sonalksis DQ1

It's essentially an EQ that can cut or boost but it has a threshold and envelope applied to it based on a key signal. I don't believe it had a side chain input either thought.

What system are you using for your Smart Mixing Spiffy ?

[beatniks3]

are you using bentosan's smart mixer: http://www.djtechtools.com/2009/06/01/s ... r-ableton/
there should be no colouring of the sound if you set it up correctly. there is a part 2 to that article that has a diagram showing how his smart mixer works.

belvario's also got a smart mixer but his does colour the sound.

part of the sound colouring comes from the way the high and low freqs are split. bentosan uses an LP filter and the phase inverse of the LP subtracted from the orginial to split high and low freq. if you just use a HP and LP filter you have areas of sound around the overlapping filter freq curves that either get left out or compressed a couple times.

done correctly, smart mixing works and sounds wonderful.

for a proof of concept, i made a smartmixer setup in usine based loosely on bentosan's mixer. i have a fun little setup where i run deckadance as a vst inside of usine and then can smartmix between the two decks.

in a very basic sense, ducking and sidechaining are volume automation. there is a tom cosm vid where he shows how to make a sidechain effect using vol automation. the smartmixer concept is taking it further and letting you select if you want the lo or high freq from either "deck" to be dominate or to be ducked.

my setup is very simple and is very easy to make good mixes. I have three knobs that take care of it all. 1st knob alters the freq cutoff between low and high. the second is my high dominance selector, all the way left is deck a high dominant center is off or no dominant, and all the way right is deck b high dominant. third knob is low dominance selector with the same deck a left, deck b right, center nothing setup.

so it's very easy for me to use.

[spiffy1661]

Sorry to revive such an old post but would you (beatnik) mind sharing a simple 2 track DJ template that you use to smart mix? Would really appreciate it thanks!

[tmcmahon2]

Sorry to revive such an old post but would you (beatnik) mind sharing a simple 2 track DJ template that you use to smart mix? Would really appreciate it thanks!

Go to djtechtools.com and search for smart mixing. The template is in there.