Complex Pro creating global glitches (even when muted)

[Fourtothefloor]

Hi I'm experiencing a problem which makes complex pro unusable for production. This happens across as sets. Effectively at the end of any clip, or as it loops over, a global glitch is created in the audio out on the master. This is not present when the track is soloed, but causes the glitch on the rest of the track (master fader) even when muted.
I think I've ruled out pretty much any possibility other than a bug. But I'm all ears if you have any suggestions.

Gear
Live 8.1.1
MBP w/ 10.6.2
Apogee duet

Cheers!

Zak

[Fourtothefloor]

Bump!

[geekbeats]

I posted a similar issue... no luck or replies, I had changed it from complex-pro to just pro as a quick work around.


Original post:
-----------------------
I have the strangest thing going on with Complex Pro mode:

Two Audio Tracks.

Track 1 has a conga loop

Track 2 has 808 bass hit that sustains for a little over two beats.


I change track 1 to "Complex Pro" and as soon as the sample plays, the 808 hit has a pop/crackle sound.
reminds me of the "jitter bleed from the old SCSI cd writers.

I change it to pro or beats or replace the loop with something else and I don't have this problem.

If that's not strange enough... I "mute" track 1 and still get the pop so I HAVE NO IDEA how to even address this issue.

Any help is seriously appreciated!

[Fourtothefloor]

Are you using a similar setup?

[posssu]

I haven't specifically tried out your setup that you mentioned, but I've noticed that Comples Pro often results glitches which force me to switch to Complex. These aren't always the normal out-of-CPU-glitches either...

I'm also with your setup:

Live 8.1.1
MBP w/ 10.6.2
Apogee duet

[prof_lofi]

Hi All,

I've been going back and forth with support (who are great btw) and Nico sent me this:

"Don't use the complex pro mode. Both, the complex and the complex pro modes need quite a lot of CPU resources, especially in the moment you launch such clips. If you launch a complex / complex pro warped clip, the warping algorithm begins to analyze the audio material in realtime which causes short CPU peaks. In most cases you won't even see these CPU peaks in the CPU meter, because the meter doesn't update fast enough to track them."

I revisited the manual and it states that these modes are upto 10% more CPU hungry than say, re-pitch etc. I know this might not be related to what you are dealing with, but not using these dropped my CPU from 30% to less than 5%. I was running 8 tracks, full .wav files, often betwee 5 and 15 minute long, with C.Pro on all of them. (I'm on a dual core/2.33 ghz machine. For what I do though, I don't need warping at all and only had them enabled from an installation that I was running from a year ago that needed follow actions etc.

Not sure if that's the cause of your problems, but changing modes and moving up to 8.1.1 seems to have alleviated the problem (I'm using C.Pro on a couple of tracks but that's it now.)

Bill

[geekbeats]

Thanks for sharing, since I've recently moved to 8.1.1 I will load my project and test the complex/pro setup and see if it changes.

[Fourtothefloor]

I'm aware it uses more CPU. I also don't tend to use complex pro unless I have to... it doesn't sound very good unless in certain situations. I'm really doubting it's a cpu spike, as I've got at least 70% spare most of the time.

Furthermore, just one track on its own using complex Pro will cause this.

[geekbeats]

I'm aware it uses more CPU. I also don't tend to use complex pro unless I have to... it doesn't sound very good unless in certain situations. I'm really doubting it's a cpu spike, as I've got at least 70% spare most of the time.

Furthermore, just one track on its own using complex Pro will cause this.

That's a valid point, but it sounds like the spike happens so quickly it does not register on the CPU utilization, you simply get the click/pop without any indication.

But... I still find it odd that this happens, sounds like it needs to be re-coded/re-worked when my quad-core machine pops or crackles even while that track that has complex-pro is muted. Bizarre!

[alex.the.forge]

Hi All,

I've been going back and forth with support (who are great btw) and Nico sent me this:

"Don't use the complex pro mode. Both, the complex and the complex pro modes need quite a lot of CPU resources, especially in the moment you launch such clips. If you launch a complex / complex pro warped clip, the warping algorithm begins to analyze the audio material in realtime which causes short CPU peaks. In most cases you won't even see these CPU peaks in the CPU meter, because the meter doesn't update fast enough to track them."

I revisited the manual and it states that these modes are upto 10% more CPU hungry than say, re-pitch etc. I know this might not be related to what you are dealing with, but not using these dropped my CPU from 30% to less than 5%. I was running 8 tracks, full .wav files, often betwee 5 and 15 minute long, with C.Pro on all of them. (I'm on a dual core/2.33 ghz machine. For what I do though, I don't need warping at all and only had them enabled from an installation that I was running from a year ago that needed follow actions etc.

Not sure if that's the cause of your problems, but changing modes and moving up to 8.1.1 seems to have alleviated the problem (I'm using C.Pro on a couple of tracks but that's it now.)

Bill

I've had similar correspondence with Ableton before.... it was probably still when Live 8 was in Beta, but I was told there are still a lot of hiccups with complex pro.... I haven't seen any indication this has improved with the latest Live 8 bugfix beta, so it's been like this a long time now

Personally I think they should give up and make it an offline mode. It's actually really good quality - I have compared a track side by side with Waves Soundshifter and the waves one didn't preserve the formants anything like as well, but complex pro is virtually unusable in real time as is.

currently I use freeze on anything that I feel needs Complex Pro to avoid this issue, so they might as well make it an offline process if they still haven't been able to fix it

I think it's reasonable for that kind of heavy duty processing to be considered a "this will stop audio, do you want to continue" type process that exists with Consolidate and Freeze for example

[Tarekith]

-1 on offline mode. Sucks it's giving people issues, but it works great in my dj sets and sounds much better than normal complex. Would hate to lose functionality because a few people are having issues. Feel bad for you guys, don't get me wrong.

[alex.the.forge]

-1 on offline mode. Sucks it's giving people issues, but it works great in my dj sets and sounds much better than normal complex. Would hate to lose functionality because a few people are having issues. Feel bad for you guys, don't get me wrong.

wow I'm surprised to hear you're actually using it in DJ sets.... maybe you just have a more powerful machine that can hack it... I'm on a 2GHz white macbook - seems to be a pretty common setup though, loads of people have these

I would NEVER play live with Complex Pro - It has pretty much always caused glitches, without fail

[Tarekith]

Weird, I use it exclusively with my DJ sets now, never had that issue.

2.16gHz c2d MBP, 320GB 5400HD, 3GB Ram.

[alex.the.forge]

Weird, I use it exclusively with my DJ sets now, never had that issue.

2.16gHz c2d MBP, 320GB 5400HD, 3GB Ram.

I also find it surprising that you use it exclusively! Don't you find it has a tendency to ruin the transients? I mostly use repitch mode for DJing, and only occasionally use complex if I need to key match - and even then, as I said I wouldn't probably trust it live and would freeze it beforehand

I guess you do have an MB /Pro/ ... maybe that Pro, plus the .16GHz and extra gig of ram is enough of a difference for it to not be a problem. Makes me also wonder if graphics card has something to do with it too.....

[Tarekith]

Repitch is no good for me, I cover huge tempo ranges with my downtempo sets, sometimes moving 10 BPM in one song. I use Pro BECAUSE of the transients, as normal Complex tends to smear them but Pro is much better in this regard.