Mixing with EQ 8

[SubFunk]

the rabbit hole can go real deep, some (***) use (and it makes totally sense, btw) a technique where you split your material with EQs that have very precise and steep curves into 'sections' and compress those with compressors that have different characters, not just different settings, like in a multiband compressor, but hey those are the levels of the fine art of the trade.

[SubFunk]

Well, it might be that someone with a 1176 developed tha technique (i honestly don't know who or when it was developed) but it does give TOTALLY different sonic results then
using a compressor that is capable of much slower times, also a compressor not being able to handle transients very well is not only a matter of the time, even it is gererally true that quicker times are leading to less transients. but it is wrong to say: quick times no transients, slow times: transients, Live's compressor is a good example of not dealing with transients super well, no matter is slow or fast settings, the DBX 160 is a prime example of no transients at all, even at it's slowest settings, therefor it is your typical drum uber-squasher and he is damn good at that.

parallel / NY style compression will always lead to another sonic result, you can't really achieve the same a 100%, you can however come close over other ways, leeds mentioned.

therfor i thing it is and can be called a technique, because the result is unique using it, no matter with which type of compressor. a transparent one (like a crane song) or a brutal squasher like a DBX 160.

[SubFunk]

Oh man, sorry for all the iPhone typing errors

[Khazul]

Precisely, parallel compression does have a very different sonic result then quick/slow attack/release settings.
You can however come to similar (still not the same!) results over different ways, leeds stated, but changing the attack / release speed is going to have a different outcome, a very different one.

i really like to know where that info that parallel compression is a substitute for the attack/release time settings come from...?

With compression you often want to target a specific characteristic with the sound and enhance it or diminish it. When using as an insert, then its always mnore of a compromise between changing what you want to change and not destroying what you want to keep. Parellel compression gives you a flexible option to heavily target a specific problem while preserving the main transients of the original.

If you find that you need to target several problem that require conflicting compressor settings, then multiple parellel compression is another approach, or even nework of compressors - ie a couple in parallel followed by an insert on the group. Basically whattever work and allow you to fix whatever it is you want to fix

[SubFunk]

^^^ yup, that is why i mentioned as well the one other 'technique' existing where you split a signal via EQs (types with very precise slopes are necessary for that) and apply different types (characters) of compression to the several 'bands' to have the effect of a multi band compressor, but with different compressor characteristics on top of it, well that is really part of the fine art of mixing, but depending on the material (it makes rarely sense with electronic material) this has a different flavour / sound you are able to achieve. just like other different 'techniques' will give you different results.

[Khazul]

^^^ yup, that is why i mentioned as well the one other 'technique' existing where you split a signal via EQs (types with very precise slopes are necessary for that) and apply different types (characters) of compression to the several 'bands' to have the effect of a multi band compressor, but with different compressor characteristics on top of it, well that is really part of the fine art of mixing, but depending on the material (it makes rarely sense with electronic material) this has a different flavour / sound you are able to achieve. just like other different 'techniques' will give you different results.

Ie a multiband compressor

BTW - if you do this using Live's EQ8, then you will need to add in Utility plugins on some of them to reverse the phase, depending upon the EQ mode, for eg, for a two band using low pass and high pass to separate the bands, one of them will need to have its phase reversed, otherwise you will get cancellation around the effective cross over frequency.

Easier to just use the included multi-band compressor/expander (Live , or other suitable multiband. IMHO, often best to avaoid multiband compressors unelss you very specfically know what you need to do and how as it is so easy to completely mess up the frequency balance.

[SubFunk]

Ie a multiband compressor

BTW - if you do this using Live's EQ8, then you will need to add in Utility plugins on some of them to reverse the phase, depending upon the EQ mode, for eg, for a two band using low pass and high pass to separate the bands, one of them will need to have its phase reversed, otherwise you will get cancellation around the effective cross over frequency.

Easier to just use the included multi-band compressor/expander (Live , or other suitable multiband. IMHO, often best to avaoid multiband compressors unelss you very specfically know what you need to do and how as it is so easy to completely mess up the frequency balance.

yes it is a type of a multiband compressor with having different compressor characteristics (the choice of those) per band.

that is why it does not replace a standard multiband compressor, it is different.

and i would not use Live's EQ8 for that surely not, the slopes are not precise enough... i personally like bias superfreq eq, the slopes on that one are like a scalpel. (or in hardware something like a weiss eq-1)

also i mentioned it, is a real expert technique, for very experienced engineers, you can destroy a lot with it as well.
and it is extremely subtle too and hardly makes any sense with electronic boom tschik, boom tschik material.

[Khazul]

and it is extremely subtle too and hardly makes any sense with electronic boom tschik, boom tschik material.

Ouch! Meow!

So decent engineering skills are only applicable to what? accoustic and/or guitar band/vocal stuff etc what the chin stroking classes probably call 'proper music'? - If thats so, then I guess were all buggered if we want boom Tschik, boom Tschik, or even boom schik boom schik

[SubFunk]

and it is extremely subtle too and hardly makes any sense with electronic boom tschik, boom tschik material.

Ouch! Meow!

So decent engineering skills are only applicable to what? accoustic and/or guitar band/vocal stuff etc what the chin stroking classes probably call 'proper music'? - If thats so, then I guess were all buggered if we want boom Tschik, boom Tschik, or even boom schik boom schik

NO NO NO, i never ever said that!!! never!, never! NO BAD MISUNDERSTANDING HERE, please!

decent engineering skills are always applicable, always!

it is just that some things don't have any effect (or hardly any) on certain materials, because the material itself does not contain a lot of 'information' for starters to be changed (influenced). a recorded string instrument with a body or the human voice (the probably most complex sound there is) are in there nature more 'sensitive' for certain techniques you can apply.

it is by no means about proper music vs not proper music, that is a judgement everyone has to make for himself.

sorry, my bad to express myself not properly.

[Khazul]

and it is extremely subtle too and hardly makes any sense with electronic boom tschik, boom tschik material.

Ouch! Meow!

So decent engineering skills are only applicable to what? accoustic and/or guitar band/vocal stuff etc what the chin stroking classes probably call 'proper music'? - If thats so, then I guess were all buggered if we want boom Tschik, boom Tschik, or even boom schik boom schik

NO NO NO, i never ever said that!!! never!, never! NO BAD MISUNDERSTANDING HERE, please!

...

sorry, my bad to express myself not properly.

LOL - Just winding you up

[SubFunk]

well, you managed

and for the record i totally love electronic music and all the stuff i produce and make myself is mainly boom tschik, boom tschik electronica (and i love DJ-ing as well, that is where my heart starts to beat real fast)

but i also claim, my very personal view and more my experience that formed that view, is that electronic music is generally easier to mix and produce (and master) then acoustic (mic recorded) music.

someone that learned mixing / producing electronic music is not automatically capable of mixing / producing acoustic music (to the same standards i mean), but it is surely the case the other way around. exceptions might apply, though i never came across any of those exceptions in over 20years myself.

[Khazul]

but i also claim, my very personal view and more my experience that formed that view, is that electronic music is generally easier to mix and produce (and master) then acoustic (mic recorded) music.

I think any genre can be easy or hard to mix well. Number and complexity of parts, skil of arranger, how rich the result is intended to be etc and the target listening environment etc.

Club music is definately getting alot simpler now with far fewer lead elements - whether through limited imagination, or perhaps people have realised that complexity and richness often just turns to boxy mush in a typical small town house PA sound

[SubFunk]

Club music is definately getting alot simpler now with far fewer lead elements - whether through limited imagination, or perhaps people have realised that complexity and richness often just turns to boxy mush in a typical small town house PA sound

well yeah, good point you make there... music 'designed' to be played in clubs is usually better of being 'simpler' designed / mixed. that is true.

but i mean the mixing procedure to the same level (to process a vox real good is harder and requires usually more skills then processing a synth sound)
but well, yes i said it is my personal view out of experience i saw people doing it, coming from those two angles / backgrounds acoustic / electronic
and i saw the differences.

but i am happy to except any other opinion on that, respectively i might will come across the exception i was talking about, that didn't happened yet to me, though.