MOTU Ultralite and Live - Please help

[joaoorecchia]

I just got a MOTU Ultralite MK3 hybrid and I'm trying to route audio to output 8 and back into Live (passing through an external effect). I've tried using the External Audio Effect and I've tried simply sending audio out to Output 8 and creating a return track getting audio from Input 8. No luck.

I can't help thinking there's something fundamental I'm missing about how the Ultralite routes it audio. I tried wildly clicking buttons on Motu's Cue Mix FX and eventually lots of feedback so I guess the output it working. I've tried RTFM...

I used to do it easily on my old MAudio FW410.

I know a lot of you use the Ultralite...

[8O]

One thing to watch out for, and I'm assuming the Mk3 is the same as the Mk1 here, is that the channels in Live don't correspond with the labelling on the Ultralite. On the outputs, channels 1 & 2 are mapped to the Ultralite's Main Out 1 & 2. Which means channels 3 & 4 in Live correspond with output 1 & 2 (as labelled on the back of the Ultralite). Kind of the same with inputs: channels 1 & 2 in Live correspond with the Mic 1 and Mic 2 inputs, the TRS inputs only begin with #3.

edit: i.e. if you have a cable connected to output #8 from the back of the ultralite, that'll probably show up as channel 10 in Live.

[joaoorecchia]

Thanks! That was is actually. I'm embarrassed at my weak ass troubleshooting skills.

[taximouse]

Don't worry, you're not a dunce, the numbers SHOULD match up and the info is surprisingly hard to find. Neither the Live or the MOTU manuals say "the numbers are wrong"

This routing issue between the Ultralite and Ableton....I'm so used to it now that I don't even think of it (i.e. that if I assign an output to #5 in Ableton I actually need to connect the cable to output #3 on the back of the MOTU), but I'd love to know WHY!

You'd think after all these years one company or the other would have "fixed" it.

[8O]

Don't worry, you're not a dunce, the numbers SHOULD match up and the info is surprisingly hard to find. Neither the Live or the MOTU manuals say "the numbers are wrong"

This routing issue between the Ultralite and Ableton....I'm so used to it now that I don't even think of it (i.e. that if I assign an output to #5 in Ableton I actually need to connect the cable to output #3 on the back of the MOTU), but I'd love to know WHY!

You'd think after all these years one company or the other would have "fixed" it.

It's simple...

MOTU's numbering goes Main Out 1, Main Out 2, Output 1, Output 2, Output 3, ... Output 8.

Live's numbering is just Out 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6... etc... it has to cope with all different types of soundcard and - afaik - there's no standardised way for the soundcard to tell Live about its own proprietary labelling.

Well, that's how I figure it is anyway...

[mikemc]

Don't worry, you're not a dunce, the numbers SHOULD match up and the info is surprisingly hard to find. Neither the Live or the MOTU manuals say "the numbers are wrong"

This routing issue between the Ultralite and Ableton....I'm so used to it now that I don't even think of it (i.e. that if I assign an output to #5 in Ableton I actually need to connect the cable to output #3 on the back of the MOTU), but I'd love to know WHY!

It is confusing. The "reason" is a mystery but the explanation is because there are two inputs labelled 1 and two inputs labelled 2. If you think of all the inputs being in a row, then they all need to scootch down two slots. But who is the real 1 and 2 ???

If you pull up the CueMix software it maybe makes a little more sense.

Also, if you use ASIO4ALL drivers, you get a different set of numbers than if you use the MOTU drivers.

So, yeh, as "8O" indicates, there is no way for the electronics to tell the software about the numbers painted on the case and if you want to match the numbers with the software you would need to change the numbers on the case depending on which drivers you use, so they are irrelevant !! yeesh.

[edit] just to be sure, you get 14 ins/outs regardless of which drivers you use, ASIO4ALL or MOTU, but with ASIO4ALL the 'main outs' are 11/12. With MOTU it is 1/2, *but* you can configure what shows up on the CueMix as the master output.

[UNISONDETUNE]

Hello all.
Concerning Live and Ultralite routing, my need is to send the main out of Ableton Live (actually a playback track) to both the Main 1-2, Analog 1-2 and Phones 1-2 channels. The point is it looks like the audio output of Ableton Live is summed to the Main 1-2 Mix and it doesn't get monitored with Phones 1-2 unless the "Follow Active Mix" or "Main 1-2" option is selected.

The reason of this all is me and my bandmate should be listening to the playback track + our respective instruments and custom mixes, while the crowd should listen to the whole mix.
I wasn't very much into the idea of looping back the Main 1-2 to the input channels (they're all taken by synthesizers and microphones though) just to get a decent monitoring, and I thought it would have been extremely dumb to just duplicate the tracks in Live and send them to different outputs - even if this should work without requiring strange patches.

So, is there a way to monitor the Main 1-2 output (namely the master output of Live) into Phones 1-2 and Analog 1-2, or does Live's master output allow just one stereo pair at once as I think?
I am playing back the tracks from the Session view (sorted in sequence for the performance) and they are, let's say Drums - Backing Vocals. Should I just mirror them three times and assign them to Main 1-2 (crowd), Phones 1-2 (mine) and Analog 1-2 (mate's stereo fm trasmitter) or is there *any* clever way to do this?

Also, I noticed the output volumes are very loud. Perhaps I should lower down Live's levels.
On a side note, any trick to make playback tracks sound mostly the same with Live's own limiter is appreciated - I have some experience on it on my own but would like to check in with what other musicians do.

Thank you in advance,

[8O]

I'm pretty sure there's a way to do it via MOTU's CueMix software, though I always find that confusing too.

In Live, one option is to create an audio track, set Audio From = Resampling, set Audio To = Ext Out -> 3/4

If that doesn't solve your problem, I suggest creating a new thread for your specific question.

[UNISONDETUNE]

I thought of that, too.
Resampling *should* be a software patching of the output into the input, so hopefully it should work without instantiating replicas of the track clips.
I just hope nothing fails since we're going live in a week with the new setup...
Thanks for the feedback

[fishmonkey]

yep, you can setup 4 different submixes of the Ultralite analog and S/PDIF inputs directly to the analog and S/PDIF outputs using the CueMix app...

[edit] whoops, didn't read properly that all your analog inputs were already taken...

[joaoorecchia]

I also did this by creating a return channel (in my case return D). In the return track set 'audio to' and choose and ext out. Then you turn up send D for the channels you want to go to that monitor mix.

[UNISONDETUNE]

In my opinion, the easiest way is actually looping back the output resampling and routing it via separate audio tracks in Live.
Too bad the CueMix FX doesn't really have control over the Live output, which is summed right after CueMix.
I'm gonna test the whole thing at rehearsals today. Wish me good luck