Reason Rewiring With Live 4.0 Sound Quality Difference Quest

rikhyray · Post by **rikhyray** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:35 pm

Sorry you misunderstood me, I mean that since Live is such great sequenzer why should anyone want to use Reason`s seq, for self mortification ? OK, I liked the way it works with microKontrol, can see the names of the track, I dont have to waste time programming, using it to learn new tool ( ver3 is very different) etc,etc, but I guess I will never complete the Reason only tune, though I am too stubborn to give up. If I keep the ideas and start that tune new in Live will finish it in few hours instead of wasting more days for no "reason".
Conclusion- Reason 3 is the best ever companion for Live, without Live it would be almost useless ( it does not work so well in Cubase as it does in Live) for me.

Former Pharaoh · Post by **Former Pharaoh** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:51 pm

As far as ease of use and inspiration, Reason is on the top of my list. For me, the easier and less involved an audio app is, the more I can concentrate on creating. I am sure this goes for most musicians out there.
Live is AWESOME when it comes to loop song structuring.
As for the MIDI sequencing capabilities, it's good but could be better. It really annoys me that multiple parameters cannot be set to a CC. Why I cannot record parameter automation to MIDI clips while in session view makes absolutely no sense to me. I feel that when recording a loop, it should go the duration specified in the global bar settings ON THE FIRST TAKE.
The routing is absolutley too time consuming when wanting to convert MIDI to audio. If one or two synths are being utilized, it's not too much of an issue, but multiple outs on a drum module....forget it!
Anyways, I'm bitching so I'll shut up now. Bottom line, if Reason 3.0 does sound better, then maybe I will consider it. But it has to have a sound quality equal to or better than VSTs.

Rahlo · Post by **Rahlo** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:25 pm

Former Pharaoh wrote:As far as ease of use and inspiration, Reason is on the top of my list. For me, the easier and less involved an audio app is, the more I can concentrate on creating. I am sure this goes for most musicians out there.
Live is AWESOME when it comes to loop song structuring.
As for the MIDI sequencing capabilities, it's good but could be better. It really annoys me that multiple parameters cannot be set to a CC. Why I cannot record parameter automation to MIDI clips while in session view makes absolutely no sense to me. I feel that when recording a loop, it should go the duration specified in the global bar settings ON THE FIRST TAKE.
The routing is absolutley too time consuming when wanting to convert MIDI to audio. If one or two synths are being utilized, it's not too much of an issue, but multiple outs on a drum module....forget it!
Anyways, I'm bitching so I'll shut up now. Bottom line, if Reason 3.0 does sound better, then maybe I will consider it. But it has to have a sound quality equal to or better than VSTs.

download the demo and check it out. then let us know what you think.

raapie · Post by **raapie** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:07 pm

soundquality of Reason...

well the NNXT and NN19 are one of the cleanest sounding samplers around. better than Kontakt for example. I am talking aliasing here.

check Malstrom's saw-graintable and compare it to other synths, hardware for example. that's a cool sounding saw, right? I don't know which synth they used, but the Props probably put A LOT of time in finding cool samples and 'graintable' them.

Malstrom is an unique synth with unique features and sounds.

the fun with Reason3's combinator is that you can create your own sounds with different devices using the Combinator. I can't think of any software capable of doing that.

VSTi's are fine but there are lots of issues between different hosts and things like that. so when you switch from Live to Cubase for example you will notice that some plugins will work fine in Live and not in Cubase and vise versa. With Reason you have this closed application... so you either love it or hate it I guess

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:19 pm

a good sound quality test would be to just render a song in reason vs. rewire it to Live, and resample.

whichever is better, go with that.

i know reason 2.5 sounds a TON better if you rewire to Live versus rendering the song in Reason.

raapie · Post by **raapie** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:42 pm

AdamJay, I don't agree. when setting up the same levels they both sound the same on rendering. I have tested this many times.

randyh · Post by **randyh** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:10 pm

This topic sure does come up a lot, the sound of 1 program vs another. I read a thread the other day that put the whole issue to rest. it was on gearslutz I think. They did an extensive comparison between programs and their mixing busses. The differences were in the -120 something db range. That is WAY below what I would consider important considering I'm making techno that has about 6db of dynamic range.

I'd say that unless you have a $20,000 set of monitors and you're making very delicate, dynamic music, forget about it and use the program you like.

The thing that I found really interesting (in that DAW comparison thread) is that certain programs basically lie to the user to get them to gain stage properly. This sounded to me like a much better explanation for people saying "program so-and-so sounds way better". I've seen people with years of audio exerience with completely screwed up gain staging (i.e. clipping all over the place). I think live is particulaly bad in this regard. You have to fight not to clip the channels especially with Impulse.

That said, if you prefer the effects, routing and mixing environment, then rewire to it. But I wouldn't be scared for a second to render in reason.

-r

Former Pharaoh · Post by **Former Pharaoh** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:45 am

rahlo wrote:
Former Pharaoh wrote:As far as ease of use and inspiration, Reason is on the top of my list. For me, the easier and less involved an audio app is, the more I can concentrate on creating. I am sure this goes for most musicians out there.
Live is AWESOME when it comes to loop song structuring.
As for the MIDI sequencing capabilities, it's good but could be better. It really annoys me that multiple parameters cannot be set to a CC. Why I cannot record parameter automation to MIDI clips while in session view makes absolutely no sense to me. I feel that when recording a loop, it should go the duration specified in the global bar settings ON THE FIRST TAKE.
The routing is absolutley too time consuming when wanting to convert MIDI to audio. If one or two synths are being utilized, it's not too much of an issue, but multiple outs on a drum module....forget it!
Anyways, I'm bitching so I'll shut up now. Bottom line, if Reason 3.0 does sound better, then maybe I will consider it. But it has to have a sound quality equal to or better than VSTs.
download the demo and check it out. then let us know what you think.

Well...I did download 3.0 and messed around a bit. I do feel the combinator is a sleek device. Lots of fun! As for sound quality, yes it definitely sounds fuller and wider. Here's my thing though....and I know I'll take a lot of heat for saying this considering there are many Reason users but.... If i go to Circuit City and buy a Casio keyboard and play it alongside a Roland Jupiter 8 (as an example), it doesn't matter if i add mastering devices to the Casio. It will still have that tinker toy sound. This is how I feel about Reason. At least for my ears...I hear some sound quality to it that doesn't appeal to me 100% comparing it to VST instruments. I use NI and GMedia synths and I love their sound. Yes, Reason sounds cool and there is definitely a place for it, however....for sound quality, I'm sticking with Live.

supster · Post by **supster** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:54 am

computo wrote:, Live still has MAJOR uses, not the least of which is audio editting!

how so? I think it does an amazing job of non-destructive editing, i always get suprised at what's possible ...

.

supster · Post by **supster** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:57 am

AdamJay wrote: i know reason 2.5 sounds a TON better if you rewire to Live versus rendering the song in Reason.

totally agree

..

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:36 am

Personally I do longer sections of say strings and whatnot in Reason....
but always dump stuff down to a loop in Live... before arranging the
whole piece. So I end up with a bunch of stuff in Live rather than a big
static unmovable sequence in Reason.

I use NI and GMedia synths and I love their sound. Yes, Reason sounds
cool and there is definitely a place for it, however....for sound quality, I'm
sticking with Live.

Yeah if you want crisp feedback (or whatever) from Reaktor then that's
what you use... If you just want a basic bass sound quickly then Reason
is fine. I find myself using NI more, but generally if it's just a simple
sound I want, and I want the midi recorded (only have Live3) then
Reason is fine. There is a tool for every job.

-Ben

computo · Post by **computo** » Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:50 am

I havent done testing on rendering, and I imagine it probably does output the exact same. But there is a MAJOR difference in the way that Reason communicates with Coreaudio on Mac at least, and when monitoring there would often be issues with clipping and other audio artifacts, especially when there were multiple low-freq tracks, like bass and deep drums. It would get VERY muddy for me, and I had to route everything out of seperate outputs for live shows.

but rewiring enables me to use my stereo output, without weird blips and hiccups which I often got in 2.5

-Computo