Please, Ableton, i want to talk SySex with my hardware synth

[f.e]

Please, Ableton, i want to talk SySex with my hardware synths through m4l.

I spent weeks making editors with Max for Virus KC, Waldorf Blofeld / Pulse+ / 4Pole, Roland R5, Korg K49 etc etc.

I need them as m4l devices. As we can't build pluggos anymore and as i bought Live to continue using my patches inside a DAW, i really need this (and i guess i'm not the only one).

Many many thanks in advance

f.e

[phattline]

right- you are not the only one...

[f.e]

And regarding the "send data with udp and build a side patch to be run in the MaxRT", it can't work. As soon as Live got the connection on my Blofeld USB driver (to play midi clips, nothing fancy), i cannot hang on the driver in Max anymore.

[videomusik]

I too am super bummed out by this.
I just bought M4L yesterday mainly because I was looking forward to build integrated controllers for my hardware synths (Sequential Matrix 1000 and Roland Alpha Juno 1) which uses sysex to control parameters.
Chose M4L because Live has been my DAW of choice since 2005, and because neither Pd or Processing could handle sysex, but Max could.
I had been hoping to save the patch information with each ableton set, and use automation and simple apc40 knob twisting
Have anybody heard why they filter sysex out, and maybe if they are looking at changing this policy?

[supamonsta]

BUMP

Logic and Cubase allow sysex, and even building your own custom "control panels" for hardware sysex stuff...

[orgul]

I too am super bummed out by this.
I just bought M4L yesterday mainly because I was looking forward to build integrated controllers for my hardware synths (Sequential Matrix 1000 and Roland Alpha Juno 1) which uses sysex to control parameters.
Chose M4L because Live has been my DAW of choice since 2005, and because neither Pd or Processing could handle sysex, but Max could.
I had been hoping to save the patch information with each ableton set, and use automation and simple apc40 knob twisting
Have anybody heard why they filter sysex out, and maybe if they are looking at changing this policy?

any news on this? is live 8 + max for live still not able to send or recieve sysex?

[josquin2000]

Obviously, you have not been following this forum.
There has been a freeze on new features until the bugs are all worked out.

This is widely disseminated, include this forum and several others (such as CreateDigitalMusic, I even think it was mentioned in KVR...).

If indeed Live is a choice for you, it would behoove you to read the published news, not just come back and complain again.

After all, this *is* cutting edge software, and the ableton devs and managers are certainly aware of the strong desire of some users for sysEx...I am certainly aware, and I could give a **** about sysEx.
Heck, it seems the whole world is upset because of sysEx or polyAfterTouch...the least used parts of the MIDI standard. You know, I would put down a very large bet that sysEx is on the TO DO list, once they get the existing 8.1/Max4Live code fully debugged and stable. "Job One" as they say.
so I guess coming here and moaning will do...? ANY good?
ok,
We get it: you want sysEx.
hint: 2-1/2 months is not very long in development of a large software, ESPECIALLY if it needs lots of debugging!!!
PAX
just my tuppence
Dr B
aka
j2k

[videomusik]

For what it's worth I have a prototype setup running which lets me send sysex data out from M4L via OSC into Processing, which then sends it to my hardware synths. And it works! I can play notes normally through Ableton, using the midiport through ableton, and at the same time move a slider, send that information to processing and parse it to send it to the same midiport, but this time through Processing.
I am using RWmidi and OscP5 for Processing, newest version of MMJ plus the OpenSoundControl object from CNMAT.
Will upload video, patches, sketches and other details when I got a stable version running. Just wanted to let you know it is possible

[Khazul]

+1 - need sysex, NRPNs etc - ie dont filter midi to M4L at all. Be nice to also generate the clock through this too as that allways seems to out for external instruments.

[f.e]

@josquin : yes we have read it numerous times. It doesn't change the fact the lack of sysex within m4l is a major outrage. I dunno what you planned to do with m4l but be sure a lot of people were messing around with hardware synths and sysex on Max and they're stuck now on m4l. For me it means i won't use Live more than 25% of the time untill it gets fixed (1 year, 2 years ?), which is not cool for something i bought. At least i can resell my Church boots if i don't like it anymore...

[hoffman2k]

And regarding the "send data with udp and build a side patch to be run in the MaxRT", it can't work. As soon as Live got the connection on my Blofeld USB driver (to play midi clips, nothing fancy), i cannot hang on the driver in Max anymore.

If its nothing fancy and you really just need the connection to trigger clips, you can compromise for a workaround.

Connect the USB driver to a Max runtime patch and feed its signal over another MIDI Driver (IAC, MIDI Yoke, MAX built-in,..). Add a UDP receiver to send signals to the MIDI output.

In Live you can connect to your hardware just like you would before, it just uses a different driver.
And you can send Sysex over UDP to your hardware in M4L. Given what you do, you won't notice any difference in performance.

While this isn't as cool as having Sysex support in Live, realistically you must see its coming.
M4L in its current state is Max as a plugin tacked on to Live. The API stuff was already there since Live 6 and didn't change much since the APC/Launchpad. The MIDI limitations have been there since Live 4 which was also the first version that supported MIDI.
The point here is: with all the demanding nutters they attracted by merging Live users and Max users, there now finally is a solid reason for Ableton to allow Sysex and all the other mess they filter out for no apparent reason (to us). I mean, how else can they improve M4L? Max already improves on its own and theoretically Live should too.

[DrJay]

I wanted to second videomusik's post.
I also tried to find a way to send sysex via osc to a second application. The only combination which worked almost 'right out off the box' is the processing (incl. RWMidi and OscP5 ) combination. I could not get it running with VVVV and pd. I'm working on windows btw.

[josquin2000]

@josquin : yes we have read it numerous times. It doesn't change the fact the lack of sysex within m4l is a major outrage. I dunno what you planned to do with m4l but be sure a lot of people were messing around with hardware synths and sysex on Max and they're stuck now on m4l. For me it means i won't use Live more than 25% of the time untill it gets fixed (1 year, 2 years ?), which is not cool for something i bought. At least i can resell my Church boots if i don't like it anymore...

so I guess coming here and moaning will do...? ANY good?

@fe, et.al. : oh, I am so sure "they" will forget your desire for SysEx for Live: after all they are so very un-responsive: I mean, they obviously have not already:
1) acknowledged your need
2) Informed us to be patient, since solving introduced bugs is the first and most important work for them (and us, as community!!!)
3) Expressed interest in providing this midi enhancement to meet their user's desire.
what is that!? they have done both of the above!?!?!?
well then, little kiddies, BE PATIENT AND STOP WHINING!!
As BigDog, a great proponent of Digital Performer says:
" REMEMBER, NO WHINING!!! "

We all want the world , and we want it now!!
especially if we went out of our way (=$) to obtain something that we did not even check or care to check that it had what we *thought* it had. (!!!) I didn't see any promises of Midi reimplementation in the Live 8 notices, did you?
So the endless line of "+1" "me-too" whining seems VERY ANNOYING. After all, are you bright enough with computer languages to be an accomplished C++ coder? And you are sure these hard working, devoted coders in Ableton are going to ignore the wishes of their users, so much so you have to remind them every few weeks, while they desperately try to fix the code they have spent years of their life developing for the world to use??

If you had *ever* been on a high pressure coding "march" ("death"-style or otherwise), you would have sympathy on the workers involved, and couch your interest in this enhancement in kinder, less accusatory terms. Period!
And I *do* know what I am talking about.
hush up, & have faith in the coolest dev effort in music since the original ProTools, Cubase (birth of VST), and the long lost StudioVision (sigh)! I think it is obvious they(ableton) are aware of the Midi desires of their users.

P.S.: PAX, it's really not personal, just a question of signal/noise ratio...and I'm tired of this particular static.
Be bright , get a workaround to work, hang in there, they are working on it.

Dr Charlie B.
aka j2k
PS: YMMV, L&K, TAKE'ER EASY, etc.etc.etc.

[friend_kami]

@josquin : yes we have read it numerous times. It doesn't change the fact the lack of sysex within m4l is a major outrage. I dunno what you planned to do with m4l but be sure a lot of people were messing around with hardware synths and sysex on Max and they're stuck now on m4l. For me it means i won't use Live more than 25% of the time untill it gets fixed (1 year, 2 years ?), which is not cool for something i bought. At least i can resell my Church boots if i don't like it anymore...

so I guess coming here and moaning will do...? ANY good?

@fe, et.al. : oh, I am so sure "they" will forget your desire for SysEx for Live: after all they are so very un-responsive: I mean, they obviously have not already:
1) acknowledged your need
2) Informed us to be patient, since solving introduced bugs is the first and most important work for them (and us, as community!!!)
3) Expressed interest in providing this midi enhancement to meet their user's desire.
what is that!? they have done both of the above!?!?!?
well then, little kiddies, BE PATIENT AND STOP WHINING!!
As BigDog, a great proponent of Digital Performer says:
" REMEMBER, NO WHINING!!! "

We all want the world , and we want it now!!
especially if we went out of our way (=$) to obtain something that we did not even check or care to check that it had what we *thought* it had. (!!!) I didn't see any promises of Midi reimplementation in the Live 8 notices, did you?
So the endless line of "+1" "me-too" whining seems VERY ANNOYING. After all, are you bright enough with computer languages to be an accomplished C++ coder? And you are sure these hard working, devoted coders in Ableton are going to ignore the wishes of their users, so much so you have to remind them every few weeks, while they desperately try to fix the code they have spent years of their life developing for the world to use??

If you had *ever* been on a high pressure coding "march" ("death"-style or otherwise), you would have sympathy on the workers involved, and couch your interest in this enhancement in kinder, less accusatory terms. Period!
And I *do* know what I am talking about.
hush up, & have faith in the coolest dev effort in music since the original ProTools, Cubase (birth of VST), and the long lost StudioVision (sigh)! I think it is obvious they(ableton) are aware of the Midi desires of their users.

P.S.: PAX, it's really not personal, just a question of signal/noise ratio...and I'm tired of this particular static.
Be bright , get a workaround to work, hang in there, they are working on it.

Dr Charlie B.
aka j2k
PS: YMMV, L&K, TAKE'ER EASY, etc.etc.etc.

where exactly did they say that they would work on implementing sysex?

[ablpix]

if u can talk sysex why not make sex not war ? sysex is no way to heaven ! calm down people

Obviously, you have not been following this forum.
There has been a freeze on new features until the bugs are all worked out.

This is widely disseminated, include this forum and several others (such as CreateDigitalMusic, I even think it was mentioned in KVR...).

If indeed Live is a choice for you, it would behoove you to read the published news, not just come back and complain again.

After all, this *is* cutting edge software, and the ableton devs and managers are certainly aware of the strong desire of some users for sysEx...I am certainly aware, and I could give a **** about sysEx.
Heck, it seems the whole world is upset because of sysEx or polyAfterTouch...the least used parts of the MIDI standard. You know, I would put down a very large bet that sysEx is on the TO DO list, once they get the existing 8.1/Max4Live code fully debugged and stable. "Job One" as they say.
so I guess coming here and moaning will do...? ANY good?
ok,
We get it: you want sysEx.
hint: 2-1/2 months is not very long in development of a large software, ESPECIALLY if it needs lots of debugging!!!
PAX
just my tuppence
Dr B
aka
j2k