seriously, where to BEGIN with m4l...??

[mholloway]

Ok, I bought max for live. I want to dive in. It's harder than I thought it would be to dive in. Why? Well, the "tutorials" are just examples that point to things and tell you what they do. That's cool -- eventually. But I don't know how those things got there in the first place. Or, that is, how one would go about putting those things there. Looking at all those devices doesn't really help me know anything about what to do on my own....so, I imagine that means I really need to start not with learning m4l, but with learning Max itself, because I have no idea how it works. So, I go to their tutorials online, and they are these huge text files (like the one that starts with 'hello') and I'm just wondering, is reading through all this really the best way to get introduced to how to work in max and m4l? this huge list of giant text files is overwhelming and feels disconnected from actually getting anything done, especially because they aren't even for m4l itself...any videos anywhere? anything more step by step? where did you START (especially if you weren't a previous MAX user...) I respond much better to things that guide you through the steps of building something yourself, rather than having it already built and just telling you what everything does...

just overwhelmed. any pointers would be greatly appreciated. total newb to max stuff. but generally able to pick stuff up pretty fast once I have a direction to shoot in.

-M

[mholloway]

okay I realized now that the max tutorials do have max programs that run along side them, that definitely makes a big difference (thought I just had to read the whole text file and hope it made sense....phew). So yeah I kinda jumped the gun. But in any case, still interested in any additional tips from people who have gone through this process...

thanks,
-M

[fuadvonloop]

Just dive in, make something simple to start with. My first patch was a bpm to ms calculator. I started out making really basic stuff, learn the basic objects. Get ideas of something simple you can make. I am still a newcomer (two month) to max and max for live and I have already build patches that I benefit a lot from.

[Tone Deft]

it's all good. max has the best tutorials and help system I've ever seen.

I don't recall exactly where the tutorials are, make a max4Live track by dropping in a max device. then hit max's help and check the tutorials. (I'm not sure you found the tutorials I'm referring to.)

a few years ago I took a week off work and took my laptop to cafes to do the tutorials. I did the first 20 of them and that was enough for me to get going. I spent hours on each tutorial, it was a LOT of fun. open one up, learn it then check out the links to the related commands. that way one lesson turns in to many.

I took a max/msp class as well. 4 classes, 2 hours each. I didn't learn much but it was cool to see how to really use the software. it was mostly the other students beating their chests about how cool they were (max has that stigma, I hate it.) I kept my mouth shut and was the only one to even try the homework. IMO it's something you learn by doing, not reading or watching.

NEVER write anything in max from scratch ALWAYS steal from the help files. also, keep in mind that there are 8 ways to do any one operation in max. LEARN THE ZL OBJECT!!

TBH it took me a weekend to just move a knob on the screen and have it move an LED on my BCR. I called the wife into the room, she was really impressed (sarcasm). she knows she married a dork.

it's a steep learning curve but make it fun and you'll be up and running. once you get comfortable, start tweaking the max4Live content. IMO the max4Live drum synths are very well written and show some cool techniques (sound synthesis, polyphony, keyboard input...)

I really try to demystify max/msp. it's so well regarded but intimidating to get started. but it is very doable and you can do a lot.

I could ramble more...

I've also set it up to run the TV through max. so, after work I'm beat I'll 'watch' TV but use max to play with delays and filters and all the 'msp' stuff. it's all about logging those hours with the software.

OK, enough rambling. hth.

[Gregory Taylor]

The Max tutorials are absolutely the best place to start, hands down. Just doing the first um... maybe 10 basic ones will make even the stuff you've looked at already and found daunting seem a lot simpler.

[pskept]

personally i think that learning sound theory/sound design is where to start with products like max/bidule/csound. you can't, for example, build a synthesizer in one of the tools without knowing how a synthesizer works to begin with. this was the trouble i had with these tools when i first started.

i should add that i am not familiar with max/msp. i am familiar with plogue bidule and csound.

[mholloway]

@pskept, I'm pretty knowledgeable about synthesis and sound design, and even have experience using Reaktor to build synths. I just wasn't understanding the basic interface of max.

but thanks guys, I got past my fear and have spent the last hour getting into the max tutorials and corresponding max files (found from the Help menu, the ones Tone Deft was mentioning....thanks) and this shit really is super, super well done. I got discouraged too quickly. They did a great job here, I realize now, and I'm getting super excited to keep running through these....

bring on the coffee, i'm hunkering down and tearing through this....

thanks again guys

-M

[Tarekith]

Step 1 - Aspirin

Step 2 - Vodka

Step 3- wake up the next day nursing a hang over and try again.


I really need to get more into M4L, feels too much like school for me

[mholloway]

I really need to get more into M4L, feels too much like school for me

yes, it does feel like school ..... but it's a controlled system, if you know what I mean, and learning systems is fun (for me, anyway), especially when you increasingly see their potential to serve you. for me the real issue is simply time management. i want to use my free time to write+produce songs, but now also to learn M4L and start building programs...but shit, there's not enough hours in the day.....and I'm still deep into synth programming, which has been a big focus of mine these past 4 months, that alone can eat up all the free hours..

-M

[Tarekith]

I went through the beginning tutorials, learned it fine, just a struggle for me to remain focused to take it much further.

[Tone Deft]

for me the real issue is simply time management. i want to use my free time to write+produce songs, but now also to learn M4L and start building programs...but shit, there's not enough hours in the day.....and I'm still deep into synth programming, which has been a big focus of mine these past 4 months, that alone can eat up all the free hours..

-M

brother you said a mouthful.

I'm sure many of us have more than enough toys, it's really difficult to spend time on all of them. I go through phases on all of them. not to mention being me outside my Man Cave/studio, bike riding, being a husband, WORK, sleep, eating...

I was using m4L nightly and all weekend until Xmas. I haven't opened it in 2010 because I've been in a big guitar kick lately. but I wasn't playing much guitar at the end of 2009.

I've also been to the point where I forced myself to use gear and that got to be like school, but very unproductive. now I know that I have the rest of my life to ENJOY all this as I see fit. I'm just stoked to have music as a hobby, I can't imagine a life without it. what do those people do?? BOOOOORING!!!

edit - I mentioned videos not being any good. I'm a HUGE fan of this guy's (technogOd) videos
http://max4live.info/
they helped me a lot in getting to know max4Live.

[LOFA]

I suggest
*writing down your ultimate goal on a piece of paper and making it extremely detailed and clear. Something you really want to make for yourself. By yourself. To make you better at being you.
*folding it so you can't read any letters and taping it to a wall
*promising yourself that you are not allowed to think about this goal, even when lightbulbs go off, until you have completed all of the max, msp and Jitter tutorials
*completing all of the tutorials
*doing all of the tutorials again
*reread your paper and commit to solving your patch with max, msp, jitter, even if it seems like the wrong tool for the task

[Tone Deft]

^ good advice, I needed to hear that.

I started a LP step sequencer it was a lot of fun to get going but I couldn't tie the loose ends together and finish it. I got going but something's missing.

[realtrance]

Honestly, I think the biggest problem is getting to a very clear idea of what you want to use Max _for_, that you can't already do another way. Once you have that very explicit goal in mind, and see Max as the means to achieve that goal.... well, all the details of what you need to learn in Max will just be steps on the way at that point.

To keep it simple, find a very small, concrete goal to start with. I think this is why many people with the APC40 are the first ones asking questions about how to do x to get y on the APC40; they have explicit things they're trying to achieve.

This is how I've learned all of synthesis, myself; Max is just another step to take.

[LOFA]

Honestly, I think the biggest problem is getting to a very clear idea of what you want to use Max _for_, that you can't already do another way. Once you have that very explicit goal in mind, and see Max as the means to achieve that goal.... well, all the details of what you need to learn in Max will just be steps on the way at that point.

To keep it simple, find a very small, concrete goal to start with. I think this is why many people with the APC40 are the first ones asking questions about how to do x to get y on the APC40; they have explicit things they're trying to achieve.

This is how I've learned all of synthesis, myself; Max is just another step to take.

I think this works if you are trying to explicitly learn maxforlive as a small expansion to live. I agree. M4L specific stuffs are specific and require a ton of max to make sense. You can bang your way through the M4L content to learn M4L but taking a week or two to internalize the tutorials should help. It will certainly open up many possibilities.