Max 4 Live runtime: For your advantage (Ableton/Max) & mine

[davepermen]

or, in a more serious try to reply:

it was in beta, but they where not happy with it, and started fresh. so they will release a new, much better share and collaborate in the future.

till then, yep, soundcloud FTW

[Khazul]

or, in a more serious try to reply:

Always so serious!

[davepermen]

WHY ARE YOU FOLLOWING ME?!?!?

[S4racen]

B. people have posted cool stuff but it falls on deaf ears. check S4Racen's posts as well as julienb. the max4Live forum is very necessary as the topics can be very very specific and not easy to answer. I'm incredibly impressed at some of the new people that have shown up and at the way some of the long time forumites have taken wing to all this.

Wow, thanks....!

Cheers
D

[squelcht]

Summing it all up:
M4L - 249EUR
M4L runtime - 50-70,EUR because it's Max, and you have to pay for it's name
M4L patches - Free or the price set by it's creator

Fare and square, isn't it?

Me likes!

[lezef]

Hi there,

It's seems to be a huge debate here about what's going on about Max and Live !
From my point of view, I'm a bit disappointed again with Ableton. Let me explain : I use Live since the 3rd version and I usually update my program for each improvement... Ok fine !
Then, I brought a Novation Launchpad and it works great and the price is far affordable than Monome. Just an incredible issue : there's no step sequencing as I hope and it would be great if there is because I plan to tweak my live set in a total improvised drum sequencing...
So I checked Novation website and finally : there's a Max for Live Patch, free of use to download. But : I didn't owned Max For Live !!! And I can't use the step sequencing on the Launchpad if I do NOT brought the add-on.
Finally, it could be cost me merelly the price of a Monome or an Akai APC40 !
So, if someone at the Ableton's HQ could give us a free access to Max for Live - like a small runtime (not to make/ edit patches - I'm not interested by this feature) just to use some useful patches as I mentioned, it would be great. Especially for those who's owned a controller merely dedicated to this feature.
Thank you all for your ideas and discussion. I hope it could make things beyond, not behind...

[ethios4]

You would be getting additional functionality for the Launchpad, which it is very fair to charge for added functionality. The Launchpad was not advertised as having a step sequencer. I'm all for a M4L runtime, but not because I think I'm somehow entitled to it.

[gusc]

Then, I brought a Novation Launchpad and it works great and the price is far affordable than Monome. Just an incredible issue : there's no step sequencing as I hope and it would be great if there is because I plan to tweak my live set in a total improvised drum sequencing...
So I checked Novation website and finally : there's a Max for Live Patch, free of use to download. But : I didn't owned Max For Live !!! And I can't use the step sequencing on the Launchpad if I do NOT brought the add-on.

Well there is one more topic out-here, about Python API - with whom you could write whatever crazy stuff you want your Launchpad to do, BUT ... it's closed source (compiled, undocumented, etc.) and there again we are left out. Off course there are a few nice guys, who have decompiled some controller scripts and made their own, but still it is really hard work to reverse engineer MIDI Scripting engine to create your own custom scripts. It would be nice from Ableton to give some developer API for those who are interested in Python development, but as much as I've read through this forum - nobody has got any response about this topic from abes.

[lezef]

Ok,

I'm sorry : it's Novation the problem, neither Ableton. So what ? In one hand, I must spit out an entire code of my own to make this controller much involved into performance, rather than just a global utility besides other devices ?
On the other hand, I'm not really enthusiast with Novation commercial policy : I must pay around 30 € for a Pro version of Automat ??

Maybe it's Cyclin'74 the problem - no PLUGGO possibilities (strange, isn't it ?), Max Runtime only in standalone mode and no M4L runtime project for registered users of Live 8. With this kind of commercial behaviour, we - consummers - must just admit it and burn our credit cards onto the web shop !
I'm not into code development : I prefer to spend my time in sound creation, using devices dedicated to this, and affordable.

Thank you all for your informations about some leads around Python or VST installation : it's encouraging that there's people who's getting envolved to solve this situation...
And I also check some useful links on Youtube about some tips to sequence Launchpad and Live, without M4L... I found this in this thread ("tips and tricks").

[gusc]

I'm not into code development : I prefer to spend my time in sound creation, using devices dedicated to this, and affordable.

Well you don't have to - look at the open-source scene. How it's evolved - there are plenty of developers eager to get their hands on developing something useful, the only problem is that API is not open to public. If it would be open, I think there would be plenty of Launchpad script customizations, even I have ideas of my own User 2 mode, but then again, I spent 1 week trying to reverse engineer current Launchpad script (and this is my first try in Python development), I got frustrated and lost my groove.

Here is one wounderful creation for Novation Nocturn: http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=122831. Also Monome project has it's "Live-to-OSC API", but those are either Live7 API based and then somehow migrated to Live8 or reverse engineered.

[gusc]

And there is one topic as a please to Ableton: http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=134338

[gusc]

Of course you can map everything. In my situation it's not about mapping, it's about response. Lets say i have EffectRack where 1st knob is assigned to dbGlitch pattern selector. Now on launchpad I have 1 row of 9 buttons in User 2 mode which select patterns 1-9 and it's enough for me, but the problem is while playing live I don't know which pattern is currently selected, because LEDs only light up on buttons not on note-range-to-knob mapping. That's one thing I would love to fix. Then off course response in User 1 mode while playing some notes it would be useful to see how they light up (off course you can do it by creating dummy MIDI track and sending same notes back to Launchpad), but why do I have to pollute everyone of my live projects.

[JuanSOLO]

Why not let Ableton and Cycling improve both their products for a while? So we can skip the topics of how much the lack of xxxx support sucks. Some features are only just falling into place. Many more to follow before we can make real user-friendly solutions. Which they would have to be to go into the wild.
And with the current goal of having a stable Live, it wouldn't make much sense to let the forum be flooded with bug reports for max patches which neither Ableton or Cycling can help with.

This comes from a guy who wants to share lots of devices, but really isn't up to the task of writing about all the workarounds involved to use them. User-friendly in my book is something you can use without a manual. That is pretty much out of the question for any devices that currently require MIDI workarounds.
I'm sure a runtime will pop up. But I'm also sure it won't be before Ableton did some big changes to Live. Unless they're suicidal...

hoffman2k pretty much nails it here.

Although the current state of M4L has dramatically improved my Live experience when performing, it comes with the heavy price of Live crashing. Until that is resovled, a runtime would be a disaster for all the crybabies looking for someone to offer them more for less. It would just give you guys something new to whine about.

Before people would think a runtime was a success Ableton MUST be more stable using M4L, AND M4L needs things added to give the ability to make devices more efficient. There are somethings M4L will not do, and there are workarounds, but these workarounds make the devices as such. Just a few tweaks here and there from Ableton and Cycling and there could be some really "User Friendly" devices, as well as builder friendly.

Personally I recommend purchasing it.

If you have enough time to post on this forum and make music, you have plenty of time to learn and make devices too, any rebuttle would be a misunderstanding of ones own confusion or lazyness.

[squelcht]

If you have enough time to post on this forum and make music, you have plenty of time to learn and make devices too, any rebuttle would be a misunderstanding of ones own confusion or lazyness.

Best 2 cents EVUR

[lezef]

If you have enough time to post on this forum and make music, you have plenty of time to learn and make devices too, any rebuttle would be a misunderstanding of ones own confusion or lazyness.

I think this sentence isn't so mean as it seems, don't you think ? Yes, I prefer making music, using devices as instruments instead of learning another developer program and writing shitloads of code. I think I have paid enough great applications and devices. And I'm not paid to write pieces of code, just for one or two useful features. I'm only interested to have a simple step sequencing module for live (even Reason) - as Novation's showing on its Youtube channel.
Do you mind if I'm a bit "angry" to pay another 250 € to Ableton / Cyclin'74 just for one patch (which is free to download to Novation's website) ?
Oh ! And I'm sorry if it takes few minutes to write posts here ! As say the quote below...