A tip on APC40 setup with USB Audio Device.

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
ark
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Re: A tip on APC40 setup with USB Audio Device.

Post by ark » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:38 pm

Tone Deft wrote:by automapping I mean the function of the 'control surfaces' box. your suggestion is to disable the function of the control surfaces. automapping is the 'blue hand' control over devices, check the manual. you haven't heard of this?

your solution is to basically disable automapping for your midi devices. I automap my BCR into Live, with your solution I would lose that functionality.
No, I think the idea is to disable the other devices once, for long enough for Live to figure out where the APC40 is. After that, you can reenable the other devices. You do not even have to disable them the next time you start Live.

At least that is how it worked for me. I have an APC40 and an MPD24 and Live got confused the first time I tried to use them both together. But after I had disabled the MPD24, connected the APC40, and launched Live, it had no trouble recognizing both devices at once next time around.

Tone Deft
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Re: A tip on APC40 setup with USB Audio Device.

Post by Tone Deft » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:48 pm

ark wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:by automapping I mean the function of the 'control surfaces' box. your suggestion is to disable the function of the control surfaces. automapping is the 'blue hand' control over devices, check the manual. you haven't heard of this?

your solution is to basically disable automapping for your midi devices. I automap my BCR into Live, with your solution I would lose that functionality.
No, I think the idea is to disable the other devices once, for long enough for Live to figure out where the APC40 is. After that, you can reenable the other devices. You do not even have to disable them the next time you start Live.

At least that is how it worked for me. I have an APC40 and an MPD24 and Live got confused the first time I tried to use them both together. But after I had disabled the MPD24, connected the APC40, and launched Live, it had no trouble recognizing both devices at once next time around.
I might try that, but honestly, I just find a power up ritual that works and stick with it. I try to cut down on the techy goofing off so I can make noise.

turn all the gear off.
slit the chicken's throat, tie it to the mic stand.
power up the laptop, wait for it to boot and settle.
power up the APC, raise the ritual blood goblet, present it to the gods of the East.
power up the BCR, present the ritual blood goblet to the gods of the north.
power up the SL, present the goblet to the gods of the west.
launch Live, honor the gods of the south, drink the blood, put my clothes on, rock out.

shit, forgot to turn on the sound card... turn everything off... (I hate nights like that.)
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

WaveRider
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Re: A tip on APC40 setup with USB Audio Device.

Post by WaveRider » Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:55 pm

Tone Deft wrote:did you try what I found to work? used it two nights in a row with that working.

turn off all your stuff
power up the computer, let it settle.
power on the APC.
power on your other midi gear.

it didn't matter when/how I powered up my USB sound card, this only applies to midi controllers.

yeah but do we install the default usb driver when the "found new hardware wizard" come up?

man I am stuck with the apc not showing in live prefs,,,,, drives me crazy having it sitting idle. :cry:

Tone Deft
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Re: A tip on APC40 setup with USB Audio Device.

Post by Tone Deft » Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:17 am

how the hell should I know? that was back in June!!! ;)

ultimately I've found that I don't need to be that paranoid. the APC just needs to be powered up when Live is launched.

IIRC there are no drivers to install. if there are no drivers on the CD or Ableton web site why would you try to install a driver?
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

mode:masters
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Re: A tip on APC40 setup with USB Audio Device.

Post by mode:masters » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:38 am

This issue is not really an issue. It happens whenever you are using more than one class compliant audio or midi device. A class compliant device means that it does not require any drivers to be loaded, instead the operating system has them already and it loads a generic driver.

The problem under WinXP is that it does not give these devices identifiable names, instead it calls them USB Audio device 1, device2, device 3 etc etc. Not particularly helpful when you have a bunch of class compliant devices in your setup. More annoying is that the name assigned to each device can change depending on what order they are plugged in/switched off and which USB port they occupy (this also links in to the 10 MIDI device entry limit issue in XP - see RME site:http://www.rme-audio.de/en_support_tech ... q_10entryd)

Microsoft have addressed this issue in Windows 7. Class compliant drivers now appear in the system by their actual name instead of the generic one, which makes identifying each of your USB MIDI devices alot simpler.

IDENTIFYING YOUR DEVICES: Unfortunately I am stuck using WinXP until I get proper audio drivers from Focusrite for Win7, so this may help other XP users with multiple devices to begin with.

First, go to your MIDI prefs and disable ALL control surfaces in the top section. For ALL remaining USB Audio devices in the list enable Track & Remote input.

In a blank MIDI track in session view and select the "MIDI From" dropdown box and select "USB Device 1". Press buttons on all your devices until the MIDI track shows that it is receiving input. Note the device that worked and remember which USB device it is linked to.

Repeat this for USB Device 2, 3 etc etc. You will now know which USB devices are which physical devices.

Go back to MIDI prefs, enable any control surfaces you require and point them to the USB Audio device numbers you found in the previous step.

**IMPORTANT** Due to the way XP handles MIDI devices, the registry will contain references to each device that is plugged into a USB port and allocate one MIDI entry for it. BUT, if you move this same device to another USB port, IT WILL THEN ALLOCATE ANOTHER MIDI ENTRY TO THE SAME DEVICE. As far as the OS is concerned, you have just connected a new device.

It is therefore recommended that for users with multiple class-compliant USB Audio/MIDI devices that you always plug them into the same USB port each and every time to avoid running out of MIDI entries in the registry (see link to RME website above).

I hope this helps some of you out there, as it has caused me massive problems before (e.g. get on stage in front of a crowd and find that the MIDI device limit has been reached and it won't detect my devices in Live anymore!).

I recommend XP users keep a copy of the information from RME regarding fixing this issue in your gig bag just in case. When you need it you're likely to not remember how to fix it quickly.

Tone Deft
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Re: A tip on APC40 setup with USB Audio Device.

Post by Tone Deft » Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:20 pm

great post, gonna sticky it in the Tips n Tricks section.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

WaveRider
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Re: A tip on APC40 setup with USB Audio Device.

Post by WaveRider » Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:42 pm

thanks you all, now I am up and running, but without my XSession controller (another generic usb device) witch messes everything.

But how come any of this is in the akai manual, I mean the "found new hardware wizard" is standard for all windows usb device installations...


BUT WOW!!! the apc is finally here and its just what I needed it was love at first try :lol: I mostly used scene launches for my live stuff now I'll rethink how I organize my session view....

kabelton
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Re: A tip on APC40 setup with USB Audio Device.

Post by kabelton » Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:37 pm

i have windows 7 and the apc 40 does not install correctly... i'm so frustated.. is there any other thing i could do? the xp trick worked for me in xp.. but now.. same trouble again..

thanks

kabelton
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Re: A tip on APC40 setup with USB Audio Device.

Post by kabelton » Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:39 pm

fuck... it cant be true spending so much time only because there is "ableton" printed on the apc 40...


i had never ever problems with usb devices, but now windows cant find my apc. i did all the advices.. no luck.


windows says it has installed correctly an usb- audiodevice.. but it also found an apc 40 which cant be installed.

im so frustrated... is there anybody who uses apc40 and windows 7 without any connecting problems??

please...

mode:masters
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Re: A tip on APC40 setup with USB Audio Device.

Post by mode:masters » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:30 am

kabelton i'm at my workplace right now but when i get home i'll PM you and get you to check a couple of things, will need you to take a screenshot for me, i'm sure we can get to the bottom of this.

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Re: A tip on APC40 setup with USB Audio Device.

Post by kabelton » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:35 am

wow, thanks a lot, now i have hope again...

thanks a lot!!!

Drsteph
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Re: A tip on APC40 setup with USB Audio Device.

Post by Drsteph » Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:16 am

Hey thanks for sharing that info.

I had just bought a few USB hubs and was trying out different plug in configurations on my XP laptop and all of a sudden - No APC!!!!

Went into the registry and had multiple copies of wdmaud.drv - deleted all but one of them. Took the APC and my microkontrol out of the control surfaces and re-added them and voila! The red box was back on live!

I still have extra settings on the properties page - instead of my apc being keyed to USB audiodevice it is now USB audiodevice (2) and my korg is USB audiodevice [2] - note the change of brackets to parentheses, whatever. Eventually I will figure out how to adjust that, but I suspect by that time I will have upgraded to windows 7.

I notice that wdmaud.drv is on multiple other entries under AUX, etc.. in the registry. Wondering if I should delete those too but currently too chicken to do it and I want to spend the time playing with my APC not hacking.
Dell laptop running Live 8 with APC 40, korg microkontrol, and Audio Kontrol 1

Deepsouljah Selecta
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i got this!

Post by Deepsouljah Selecta » Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:55 am

don't delete any thing from your registry unless you know what your doing. call akai support and they will put you straight. It took about 2 minutes once i got the guy on the phone. the box is yellow now and my mpk49 is working along side my apc40 smooth as could be.

(2) is not the same as [2]

with computer on
ableton on
APC40 powered up but usb not connected to computer
MPK49 usb not connected to computer (no power needed but use if you want too)

options
preferences
midi sync
return all devices ins & outs to "NONE"

connect usb for MPK49

in slot 1/control surface select "MPK49"
in slot 1/input select "usb device" that appears over usb device [2] usb [3] <-- brackets!
in slot 1/output select "usb device" that appears over usb device [2] <-- brackets!


connect usb for APC40

in slot 2/control surface select "APC40"
in slot 2/input select "usb device" that appears over usb device (2)<-- parenthesis!
in slot 2/output select "usb device (2)" <-- parenthesis!

done

the red squares/lines are now yellow. if you prefer red assign apc to slot 1. blue slot 3 and so on in order of 3's red yellow blue

the thing to remember is MPK49 = [] APC40 = ()

hope you get it straight.

cheers

Cadd
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Re: A tip on APC40 setup with USB Audio Device.

Post by Cadd » Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:11 am

This was a big problem for me on set up, but thanks to Arcadekid's post on this thread I realised that the logitech webcam was the problem.
Solution is to delete logitech completely.
On restart the apc40 controller now shows the option to use USB Audio Device (apc40) on input & output.
No problems now and everything working sweet!!

Hustep
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Re: A tip on APC40 setup with USB Audio Device.

Post by Hustep » Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:45 pm

I have the same problem! Did you ever resolve this??

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