being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

[Kirk Degiorgio]

ts... actual dj´s shouldnt complain.. its rather disgusting for liveacts seeing djs acting as one...

so you have to cary all the hatdware again to make a point...

>> make the point of what exactly?

i personaly was wittnesing a view times that parts of the audience have mistaken an ableton dj set as a life set because they just not knew that the guy was playing steve bug, luciano and alike... there are really people that go to the partys that dont know much about the artists... or the other way around..people are so used to djs with laptops and controlers that they take the liveset as a dj set... Its realy a bit mixed up by now...

i also once was asked if i ve realised that the dj is playing al the time the same record.. one thats named time code ..

yes, it is a bit mixed up now... I find it fascinating, exciting and inspiring. The fact that you can be so creative when "DJing" because of progress with technology is liberating.

I don't think live acts need to be disgusted if the people at gigs confuse an Ableton Dj set with a live performance - if some of the crowd aren't knowledgeable of the artist on stage it's hardly the performers fault.

KD

[rompling]

Kirk Degiorgio you make some good points and have changed my perception of this disscussion especially with the Ron Hardy , Walter Gibbons slant to your side of the view .I think a lot depends if the crowd see you interact and having a good time or " your checking your emails" head buried down look.
This applies to laptop dj`s and real dj`s too

[RCUS]

It's only February and we already have thread of the year!! Ableton boards are the best boards in the whole universe!

Kirk I wish I could check out those links but I'm just barely able to connect and reply with my current connection and shady iPhone.

Now everyone shut up and watch my video so I can win a MIDI Fighter and prove that Ableton is better than traktor! (dammit why didn't I think of that sooner for marketing...FML!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sAff5WS740

I only need 9000 more views by Sunday to win....

/shameless v2.0

[3phase]

i prefer dj´s that dj and live acts that play live...

however. a mixed form is ok either.. .

when somebody is realy using the possebilitys to do live remixing i would consider that as a digi J act ..

Everybody is free to do how they like..but you shouldnt be surprised when people act a bit funny when they seeing you using the live software without doing much live...
the guys with the time code records look still pretty busy...

however.. djíng of the future will be anyway defined by the blend with gogo dancing and burlesk costumes... so you better get yourself a nice dress in time and learn some moves

[Kirk Degiorgio]

Kirk Degiorgio you make some good points and have changed my perception of this disscussion especially with the Ron Hardy , Walter Gibbons slant to your side of the view .I think a lot depends if the crowd see you interact and having a good time or " your checking your emails" head buried down look.
This applies to laptop dj`s and real dj`s too

well being OFFICIALLY THE FIRST PRO DJ TO USE LIVE EXCLUSIVELY FOR DJING ( ), I have come across a lot of issues that take a different mind set from a linear type of set to solve. One of them being the visual impact. There really was no way around this until MIDI controllers came onto the market.

with the APC40 I can finally free myself totally from the laptop and just work the APC40 like an instrument. I have various little tricks in my setup to enable me to rock the controller just as I would a conventional Dj mixer. I spend FAR less time looking at the laptop than a vinyl DJ does with his back turned to crowd looking thru the boxes.

BTW - I still LOVE to hear a great vinyl set... I'm just putting a different viewpoint on the "real DJ" discussion. I support vinyl - both by buying it, and my label still releases vinyl. I don't use mp3's and take great care with my setup and warping options to make the sound quality top notch too. I don't use Ableton cos it's easier than carrying boxes of vinyl (it's not - 2 laptops, APC40, cables weighs a ton), or cos it's cheaper (it's not), and I played regular vinyl sets for years, so in other words - I don't use it out of convenience or ease of use, I use it for creativity.

[Trypset]

This argument/debate will never end.

DJ's came first. They jockey disc on turntables that play records, even be it timecode now.

The their are CD DJs, they jockey CD's on CD turntables that play CD's

Then there are people who imitate what DJ's do with these tools with a computer and possibly some controllers. It's not the same thing, and neither is the end result. So why call yourself the same thing? Just drop the label/term DJ and be an artist, mixer, performer, whatever you want to call yourself, make up a new word, but it's not DJing. It's an imitation of DJing. Hell maybe people think they are above DJing, who cares because it is totally different. The only thing in common is that you are making the speakers bump. Guitar players do that do, cover bands who play only other peoples songs don't call themselves DJs...

Not taking away from the different skills involved or saying one is better than the other, but people call apples apples for a reason and oranges oranges for a reason. If you are mixing music off a computer then that's exactly what you are doing, mixing music off a computer. If you are using ableton to so call DJ, without playing any original beats, basslines, fills then why aren't you using the traditional tools of a DJ? Automechanics don't use the same tools as a carpenter. That's why they are called automechanics and carpenters are called carpenters.

Pee is the answer, still.

[3phase]

life acts are called life acts because they use ableton live ???
i hope you are joking

[Kirk Degiorgio]

This argument/debate will never end.

DJ's came first. They jockey disc on turntables that play records, even be it timecode now.

The their are CD DJs, they jockey CD's on CD turntables that play CD's

Then there are people who imitate what DJ's do with these tools with a computer and possibly some controllers. It's not the same thing, and neither is the end result. So why call yourself the same thing? Just drop the label/term DJ and be an artist, mixer, performer, whatever you want to call yourself, make up a new word, but it's not DJing. It's an imitation of DJing. Hell maybe people think they are above DJing, who cares because it is totally different. The only thing in common is that you are making the speakers bump. Guitar players do that do, cover bands who play only other peoples songs don't call themselves DJs...

i thought I'd already covered that point - nobody suggested legendary Disco jocks weren't "real DJ's" but they made extensive use of reel to reel tape machines in the booth in order to play their own re-edits/remixes - albeit incorporating them alongside vinyl rather than using them exclusively - but the point is still valid IMO.

therefore - using any type of medium to play other peoples music that they originally performed (different from a cover band) is closer to DJing than anything else. I don't mind calling it an Ableton Dj set, but calling it something else sounds petty or even a little pretentious to me.

If you are using ableton to so call DJ, without playing any original beats, basslines, fills then why aren't you using the traditional tools of a DJ? Automechanics don't use the same tools as a carpenter. That's why they are called automechanics and carpenters are called carpenters.

with respect, but fuck tradition. Why dismiss a tool because it's not the 'traditional' way of doing things? Using Ableton gives you more creative options than the traditional tools - that's why it's being used and how it justifies itself.

KD

[Kirk Degiorgio]

life acts are called life acts because they use ableton live ???
i hope you are joking

why not? you could probably replicate all the features of a full-on hardware rig within Ableton... and more.

I'd also hate to see live tours limited to only those acts who have a large tour budget behind them.

[Trypset]

K man, I can agree to disagree. I just like to watch someone spin records more than someon with their computer, regardless of the output. One way that I see easy to distinguish that is the term DJ, especially on a flyer for a show with peeples I don't know. We started promoting shows as vinyl sets to attract the crowd we wanted...but the world is evolving so I guess I lose.

[3phase]

tss.. ableton life is not the only software suitable for life use..rather the oposite wright now..


i know logic acts... i know acts that do purely reaktor.. a guy with reason...

you just said it before..when somebody is dj ing with ableton live its still djing and not playing life..

when somebody is doing extensiv live remixing or is playing plenty of own materials we get into the difuse zone where things really get mixed up.. ritchie hawtin solo sets are like that.. but i think he still considers them dj sets..
however there are live parts in it..

so things might get mixed up in the future even more.. dj´s have to produce own tracks theese days.. maybe they have to perform live as part of theiere sets in the future to be a cool j...

and gogodancing of cause..


however in the moment main parts of the audience think that somebody is doing a live set wehn no records are involved... people still associate dj ing with playing records..

[Trypset]

with respect, but fuck tradition. Why dismiss a tool because it's not the 'traditional' way of doing things? Using Ableton gives you more creative options than the traditional tools - that's why it's being used and how it justifies itself.

KD

see, I'm all about tradition so we just have different opinions. No matter how creative or how far tehnology advances a computer is never going to sound like a needle on a record getting cued up or scratched, like "vinyl"DJ does. That's the sound I'm in love with. And I hate hearing that sound trying to be imitated.

[3phase]

even when this wont be tomorow... vinyl might die eventually.. at least there is a defenitiv trend towards laptop djing.. if one likes it or not..its defenetly a practical solution.. and usually the practical solutions dominates earlier or later..

[Trypset]

even when this wont be tomorow... vinyl might die eventually.. at least there is a defenitiv trend towards laptop djing.. if one likes it or not..its defenetly a practical solution.. and usually the practical solutions dominates earlier or later..

totally agree, but who like to be mainstream? j/k to each his own. @ Kirk - Way to be the first ever Ableton DJ man, if I had a cookie I could give you through the web I would. That's an ingenius accomplishment.

[Kirk Degiorgio]

K man, I can agree to disagree. I just like to watch someone spin records more than someon with their computer, regardless of the output.

and I fully respect that... like I said - I still love to hear a great vinyl set But for me, I find the creative options of playing sets with Ableton really inspiring.

I'm sure a lot of all-digital producers would scoff at my preference for analogue hardware... it's all just options and as long as it's creatively justified (and that means not just using Ableton to trigger single clips one after the other) it's all good!