Producing Minimal Techno with Ableton Live

[Doctor Doctor]

I think videos and tutorials are all good things. But in this case, I have to say, respectfully, that it's difficult for me to recommend something that costs over 300 quid based on the demo video. I mean wow, that's a lot of money. In comparison, if you look at Forge's tutorials or Ask Video, it's literally a fraction of the price, and you get to learn Live's features supremely well enough to go create your own minimal techno. And hell, why stop there...go make polka bollywood trance.

Again, I think tutorials by nature are good things. In this case, the cost seems really high, and I'm wondering about the quality of it based on just that video snippet. If I might make a suggestion, snow a snippet of how to make and tweak the perfect kick drum, and you have a much better chance at the niche market you are trying to attract.

I'd like to say that what we are offering is not simply a video tutorial or even a set of video tutorials...

The video shown demonstrates the feature of our course which is exclusive to us and is not available anywhere else, and this is the fact that you recieve 1-2-1 personalised video feedback on your tracks from a pro producer. So what your seeing in the video and that comes with the course is a video created by the tutor Danny Lewis in which he has recieved a student's Ableton project, listened and examined it, then Danny goes through the project and advises on what may be improved and how to make the improvements to create the track and sound that you want.

The course does come with a great set of tutorials and projects, but we feel that it is often the case that these are not enough. These online courses are created for those people who cannot, for whatever reason, attend a course at our London College, thus when developing these courses our aim was to ensure a learning enviroment which is as close as possible to the in-college enviroment. We feel that the price is fair and just, as among the usual materials you are paying for the time of a professional producer.

Perhaps we need to ensure that these details come across better in the course description?

http://www.pointblankonline.net/minimal ... bleton.php

Again thanks for the comments and please keep them coming, we strive to take all feedback on board and answer any questions we can.

[Doctor Doctor]

is this thread some kind of spam? and wouldnt only retards buy such advices from nobodys?

and third... are´nt there not enough minimal tracks on the market that sound exactly alike?

I'm not quite sure that I would describe our tutors in such a way, all our tutors are professional porducers with track records which speak for themselves. Check out the tutor page here:

http://www.pointblankonline.net/about-p ... tutors.php

[davepermen]

is this thread some kind of spam? and wouldnt only retards buy such advices from nobodys?

and third... are´nt there not enough minimal tracks on the market that sound exactly alike?

I'm not quite sure that I would describe our tutors in such a way, all our tutors are professional porducers with track records which speak for themselves. Check out the tutor page here:

http://www.pointblankonline.net/about-p ... tutors.php

it's 3phase. everyone is a nobody compared to him, and all music that isn't like his sound all the same and is crap. it's our beloved 3phase

[dum]

Dave doesn't like the straight talking 3phase, because 3phase makes banging techno and has a discography sheet as long as your arm. Whereas Dave has a bandcamp page.

[davepermen]

Dave doesn't like the straight talking 3phase, because 3phase makes banging techno and has a discography sheet as long as your arm. Whereas Dave has a bandcamp page.

^^ (you got the because wrong. i don't care about that, as it's wrong to compare dicks to prove a point )

[dum]

Two surgeons talking about their tools.
One of them is a brain surgeon with hundreds of successful operations under his belt.
The other is a local veterinarian, who does colonoscopies on his neighbour's pet guinea pigs.


Funnily enough, the local vet likes to follow the brain surgeon around and contradict him at any given opportunity when he talks about his tools.

[3phase]

is this thread some kind of spam? and wouldnt only retards buy such advices from nobodys?

and third... are´nt there not enough minimal tracks on the market that sound exactly alike?

I'm not quite sure that I would describe our tutors in such a way, all our tutors are professional porducers with track records which speak for themselves. Check out the tutor page here:

http://www.pointblankonline.net/about-p ... tutors.php

I dont see anything there that has credits in the minimal techno world.. sorry..you are just jumping on a trend to sell some lectures... if bangalore house would be hip now you would come up with some style lectures within 3 month?... because its all techno... just listen a bit to it bleep bleep.. i can do that aswell..easy.. and of cause i can teach it than..i dont like the crap.. but i like the bucks so i teach the people the art of the style..
Sorry.. i cant take that serious... And i live in a city wher every secnd guy is a dj.. but i never ever met anybody that went to dj school..actually the only dj scool that matters is to play in a propper club or big party...

i just imagine what would happen when a guy wants to play in a berlin club and shows his dj certificate from your "school" )
sorry.. you make money with a produkt you cant really deliver..

i wouldnt say something if you would do plain soundengeneering or synthsound design classes.. there is maybe something to teach that has value.. but to teach to be dj or how to do a style in a propper way? just going to school for this disqualifies allready..
And any person that thinks thats its possible to achive anything in a style by following the rules of some guys that choke it down to a business without beeing even involved, have my pitty..

However... with retards you make the best biz,... and you startet fishing here because you expect to find lots of retards in the ableton userbase?

[davepermen]

Two surgeons talking about their tools.
One of them is a brain surgeon with hundreds of successful operations under his belt.
The other is a local veterinarian, who does colonoscopies on his neighbour's pet guinea pigs.


Funnily enough, the local vet likes to follow the brain surgeon around and contradict him at any given opportunity when he talks about his tools.

if he would only know what he talks about..

hint, i am software developer. he isn't. and his complains are not about musical stuff, but about the way the software gets developed, tested, bugreports get handled, how long fixing can take, etc.

in that point of view, i'm the brian surgeon, he's the vet.


EDIT: in this thread, he tasks about music. but what he did (and which is why i replied) was to just declare "minimal shit because i don't like it". by that meaning, i could declare tons of music crap which isn't. "not liking it" is no judgement for declaring some musical style to not be worthy.

i agree with him about the new post, though..

[nebulae]

I'd like to say that what we are offering is not simply a video tutorial or even a set of video tutorials...

The video shown demonstrates the feature of our course which is exclusive to us and is not available anywhere else, and this is the fact that you recieve 1-2-1 personalised video feedback on your tracks from a pro producer. So what your seeing in the video and that comes with the course is a video created by the tutor Danny Lewis in which he has recieved a student's Ableton project, listened and examined it, then Danny goes through the project and advises on what may be improved and how to make the improvements to create the track and sound that you want.

The course does come with a great set of tutorials and projects, but we feel that it is often the case that these are not enough. These online courses are created for those people who cannot, for whatever reason, attend a course at our London College, thus when developing these courses our aim was to ensure a learning enviroment which is as close as possible to the in-college enviroment. We feel that the price is fair and just, as among the usual materials you are paying for the time of a professional producer.

Perhaps we need to ensure that these details come across better in the course description?

http://www.pointblankonline.net/minimal ... bleton.php

Again thanks for the comments and please keep them coming, we strive to take all feedback on board and answer any questions we can.

Fair enough...I think for your asking price, you can do a LOT better in terms of marketing what you are charging that amount via the video snippet. Right now, it feels like you just showed us a Toyota but you're charging Ferrari prices, if that makes sense. Good luck.

[dum]

Actually he's still the brain surgeon, and you're just some apologist number cruncher working at the scalpel factory that caters for vets specialising in guinea pig colonoscopies =)

Ok, the analogy is getting convoluted...

His complaints come from a musician & consumers point of view. Which is the ONLY worthy point of view when it comes to expensive, commercially sold music software. All the bullshit aside - Ableton can get their software right. They just choose to sell the code for full price about a year prematurely, and in yearly cycles - whilst a chunk of the coding resources are focused on next year's money spinner instead of stabilising this years buggy release. An arrogant and ultra capitalistic way of doing business and treating a loyal userbase. They need to be held to the standards of working musicians, and basic consumer laws (that means not advertising functionality that they know isn't likely to work for some time - and the whole 'if you didn't spot their lies in the demo, it's your own fault' excuse is apologist bullshit).

So what if you're a software developer ? To make money I help run a small business (unrelated to music), and help with the family business too. So we're the experts in our field, that doesn't mean if we do a shitty job we are entitled to say ''well, fuck you, because you don't know the pressures we have to deal with and plus we're a growing company, yada yada blah blah'' ... it's our duty to deliver what we promise/advertise. and only promise precisely what we can deliver. That, my friend, is true of all business. the expertise can be drastically different, but the one constant is: Don't promise what you can't deliver. And Ableton can deliver it. just usually a year after you paid for it. That needs to change.

It's all about their business practises - not what's within the realms of possibility regarding code. As the quality statement confirms, now all their dev resources are focused on stabilising live8. Why, in the name of sweet fuck, wasn't that the case to begin with ? They've been doing this for years and finally the CEO has admitted it's a shambolic way of doing business and needs to be addressed. Whether that's just a glib PR apology or not remains to be seen. It very well could be, seeing as it wasn't sent out in a newsletter or email. Just a post to quieten all the ranters on the forum.


edit:
he's completely right about minimal techno, and the idea of a minimal techno school is dreadful. Fisto & Subfunk (and to a lesser degree, milfhuntr) all said the same thing before 3phase echoed their feelings. And yet you had nothing to say to them.


So, in short, your ''im a software dev too'' apologies are beyond moot.

[davepermen]

well, no.
he payed for live, he wants it to run without problems.
i'm fine with that.

he has a problem, he complains about it.
i'm okay with that (not fine, should just directly used the support way).

support asks for information, and explains what information. he doesn't deliver.
i'm not okay with that.

he still complains, and complains about how support doesn't help.
i'm not okay with that, starting to piss me off.

support explains that it's hard to fix bugs that you can't trigger. and it's hard to test if they're fixed if you can't trigger
them. he complains about having supplied the info (which he didn't), and how they didn't help (which they tried).
i'm not okay with that, esp. the lying, but, too, the non-accepting and non-understanding of their questions for assistance to fix it.

and there, i'm the master, he's not. he doesn't understand how sw development goes, and how users can be a big help in finding and fixing bugs fast.

i do agree with him that live should work great, but that's an ideal, and mostly not ever 100% guaranteeable (something he doesn't understand as well). so it's important, if it doesn't work for someone, to find the solution to fix it. sadly, sw developers have to work together with the ones that have the problem. without that, it's about IMPOSSIBLE to fix it.

sometimes later..

ableton officially admits they have big problems. he still creates NEW posts about how live sucks.
i can't, at all, agree with that.

mostly, he's just bashing live for not much reason. i agree about the issues, and that they should be fixed. i can't, ever, agree on his ridiculous behaviour.

and his behaviour is shown in a lot of other places: music he doesn't like can't be good. vintage devices are always better than anything new, etc etc.

all he shows is, he has lots of experience, but it made him just an old grumpy man complaining about everything, because he somehow missed some opportunity in his life and now is pissed against anyone.


i personally like minimal. not the greatest thing in the world IMHO, but i find it okay. declaring it to be shit is ignorance, pure ignorance. the last thing we need in the music industry.


maybe you understand me now? he, at least, won't. discussed it with him often enough.

[3phase]

well, no.

could you dickhead please stop to spread lies? i ve prooved a couple of times here that i delivered all necessary infos to ableton... when they want me to nail all bugs in detail and represent them in a reproduceable form they can rent my time...
I ve other things to do in the studio than to do bughunting all year long..
They really want the user to pay to do betatesting..thats weard..
And when you go thru theire routine and deliver a bug in a reproducaable form.. you have to start a flamewar in the main forum to make them getting to it..

I think its time to do that with the midi event timing bug by now,.dont seems to be important on a software that is ment to do 16th quantized music...

My list of mails to ableton support and beta is longer than the it fits on the screen and ive dozends of entry in the beta forum.. as long they are not solved i dont file any new bugs... and i still find something every day i start the program..so i avoid starting it.

I ve any reason to hold on to complain because allmost one year after purchase.. in 4 weeks it´s one year.. i still dont have a propper working live 8...
and cant risk to go on stage with it...
but because they trapped me with the fileformat i also cant ask for my money back..
thanx ableton and shut up depperman

[davepermen]

and that's what i mean, dum.. not cooperative, only crying and bitching..


to 3phase: people that don't try to help are not allowed to make a product look bad by bashing it. which is why i will continue to attack you when you do it. and when you dismiss music styles that you don't like or understand, showing your ignorance. your ego is way too high.

[3phase]

and that's what i mean, dum.. not cooperative, only crying and bitching..


to 3phase: people that don't try to help are not allowed to make a product look bad by bashing it. which is why i will continue to attack you when you do it. and when you dismiss music styles that you don't like or understand, showing your ignorance. your ego is way too high.

???

you are really stupid.. frist.. i helped more than i should have anyway..after the nice treatment of ableton support that didint wanted to belife in the buggy state i accused them of last summer.. but told them that i am just earlie in realising problems and other people will report trouble later..

and that was just what happened..

so there is a handfull of bugs that i ve reported first.. is that helpfull enough to be allowed to complain?

however..

its not on the user to help to find bugs..
every user has the right to complain about such a mess.. not only the ones that help to solve it..

and now please stop to pie on my leg like a little nasty dog ..

This thread has nothing to do with ableton bugs.. but you made it that way again...

so actually you trigger it where you can...

ableton is really blessed with users like you..never finds a bug and triggers extra noise..

[davepermen]

its not on the user to help to find bugs..

you will NEVER understand that, right?

"doctor, it hurts me?"
"where?"
"thats YOUR JOB TO FIND OUT, STUPID DOCTOR"


and no, ableton showed and has proven that the information you provided was NOT the information they needed. they documented that.
besides, even if you would have done "your part", it's not fair to bash them all over the forum all the time. just like you feel it's not fair from me bashing you everywhere you bash someting else. as you know how it feels that i attack you all the time, you should get SOME understanding how it feels for ableton. which actually live from their product. you make them lose customers. you harm them. all the time. this is NOT your right. this is egoistic behaviour. and unfair. even if you WOULD have been right.

and yes, i was actually bashing your "i don't like minimal => it's absolute crap music" statement. which is sorta "musical rasism".

i agree with you about the rest of the statements you made (and posted as such).