being accused of not being a "real DJ" with Ableton

[davepermen]

BTW, why do you constantly talk about pride, Davepermen? Tell me how pride should be related to playing music out for the people around you? Or why should we be proud, if anything?

Andrejs

the OP felt offended. i say he shouldn't be. he chose his way of playing music for a reason: because he thinks it's a good way, for him. so he should feel good about his way, and not get offended by someone telling him that he "isn't like the others". which he isn't. the "default electronic club dj" of today plays on cdjs, two of them, and with a hardware mixer in between.

he didn't, so he obviously is not the same. and he should feel good about it, not getting hurt by someone telling him that obvious thing.

i never used the word pride anywhere, did i?

and if so, he should be proud that the gig went well, and everyone (including the bitchy guy) loved what he did. the offending guy wouldn't went to him else actually. accussing him of cheating was sort of a "no wonder it sounds that good" statement.

we can be proud if we get compliments for something we do. not?

[caaflex]

so it's wednesday and i feel like beating a dead horse, but how can you be a DJ (Disc Jockey) when you don't have discs to jockey? lol

i don't consider playing on live as DJing, but IMO thats not discrediting. it's just a different technique. honestly, i'd be more like the guy who posted early in this thread. down the road when i start playing out on live and have all my gear and someone says "hey man, your a dope dj" i'd be a little put off. but i'd still take it as a compliment and chalk it up to him not really knowing any better.

ableton live is a completely different beast than having some decks and a mixer. of course you can vastly underuse ableton and simply use it to mix 2 tracks together, but thats all you are doing, mixing two tracks together in ableton. which i can teach my 3 year old daughter to do, so i wouldnt go around boasting any "dj" skills if that is the case.

[davepermen]

so it's wednesday and i feel like beating a dead horse, but how can you be a DJ (Disc Jockey) when you don't have discs to jockey? lol

i don't consider playing on live as DJing, but IMO thats not discrediting. it's just a different technique. honestly, i'd be more like the guy who posted early in this thread. down the road when i start playing out on live and have all my gear and someone says "hey man, your a dope dj" i'd be a little put off. but i'd still take it as a compliment and chalk it up to him not really knowing any better.

ableton live is a completely different beast than having some decks and a mixer. of course you can vastly underuse ableton and simply use it to mix 2 tracks together, but thats all you are doing, mixing two tracks together in ableton. which i can teach my 3 year old daughter to do, so i wouldnt go around boasting any "dj" skills if that is the case.

+1

[AceLuby]

so it's wednesday and i feel like beating a dead horse, but how can you be a DJ (Disc Jockey) when you don't have discs to jockey? lol

i don't consider playing on live as DJing, but IMO thats not discrediting. it's just a different technique. honestly, i'd be more like the guy who posted early in this thread. down the road when i start playing out on live and have all my gear and someone says "hey man, your a dope dj" i'd be a little put off. but i'd still take it as a compliment and chalk it up to him not really knowing any better.

ableton live is a completely different beast than having some decks and a mixer. of course you can vastly underuse ableton and simply use it to mix 2 tracks together, but thats all you are doing, mixing two tracks together in ableton. which i can teach my 3 year old daughter to do, so i wouldnt go around boasting any "dj" skills if that is the case.

Does DJ HAVE to mean 'disc jockey'? It was coined that in the 30's to describe what radio guys did, but can't DJ stand for any number of things?

Second, if being a DJ only requires more than one disc, what skills are there in someone on stage pressing play on a single CD player (a 'real DJ' according to Dave) as opposed to using live?

[davepermen]

so it's wednesday and i feel like beating a dead horse, but how can you be a DJ (Disc Jockey) when you don't have discs to jockey? lol

i don't consider playing on live as DJing, but IMO thats not discrediting. it's just a different technique. honestly, i'd be more like the guy who posted early in this thread. down the road when i start playing out on live and have all my gear and someone says "hey man, your a dope dj" i'd be a little put off. but i'd still take it as a compliment and chalk it up to him not really knowing any better.

ableton live is a completely different beast than having some decks and a mixer. of course you can vastly underuse ableton and simply use it to mix 2 tracks together, but thats all you are doing, mixing two tracks together in ableton. which i can teach my 3 year old daughter to do, so i wouldnt go around boasting any "dj" skills if that is the case.

Does DJ HAVE to mean 'disc jockey'? It was coined that in the 30's to describe what radio guys did, but can't DJ stand for any number of things?

Second, if being a DJ only requires more than one disc, what skills are there in someone on stage pressing play on a single CD player (a 'real DJ' according to Dave) as opposed to using live?

you still don't understand what we actually say.. you have no clue.

and yes, DJ has to mean disc jockey, that's it's default definition. it's defined as D standing for disc, and J for jockey.

and when you use ableton live, you do something different, physically, than when you use some cd or vinyl decks with a mixer in between. you output music, but the HOW IS different. with both a bike and a car you can drive, but HOW is different.

and that difference is nothing bad. indeed, i see it as a progression to use live instead of the "typical dj setup".

[caaflex]

so it's wednesday and i feel like beating a dead horse, but how can you be a DJ (Disc Jockey) when you don't have discs to jockey? lol

i don't consider playing on live as DJing, but IMO thats not discrediting. it's just a different technique. honestly, i'd be more like the guy who posted early in this thread. down the road when i start playing out on live and have all my gear and someone says "hey man, your a dope dj" i'd be a little put off. but i'd still take it as a compliment and chalk it up to him not really knowing any better.

ableton live is a completely different beast than having some decks and a mixer. of course you can vastly underuse ableton and simply use it to mix 2 tracks together, but thats all you are doing, mixing two tracks together in ableton. which i can teach my 3 year old daughter to do, so i wouldnt go around boasting any "dj" skills if that is the case.

Does DJ HAVE to mean 'disc jockey'? It was coined that in the 30's to describe what radio guys did, but can't DJ stand for any number of things?

Second, if being a DJ only requires more than one disc, what skills are there in someone on stage pressing play on a single CD player (a 'real DJ' according to Dave) as opposed to using live?

uh if you only have one cd player and you push play, then i would say you are just playing a cd? call me a simpleton but u know... i didnt see the original post so maybe being out of context is making me miss the point.

i get where you are going with your point, but loose terms aren't going to settle this kind of banter. you need black and white, not a bunch of gray for everyone to dance around in. call it what it is, mixing tracks in ableton is mixing tracks in ableton, traktor is a traktor set, dropping vinyl and CDs is jockeying some discs.

thats why when i start playing out in live im going to call myself a loop jockey, because it aint a PA, and i wont just be mixing a few tracks together, but i will indeed be jockeying some loops and thrashin and slashin samples like the slap chop.

[Tone Deft]

times are changing.

I'd ask a 14 year old what a DJ is. they live a life not knowing that once upon a time a DJ was the dude with the crate of vinyl, there were no other options. today it's rare to NOT see a computer in a DJ booth, right?

shake the chains of your old way of thinking. it is what it is.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L0jJhge5rA

People Under the Stairs - The Double K Show

[Thes One]
It's not turntablism, it's hip hop
It's not turntablism, it's hip hop
It's just what it is

You got a DJ, I guess that's nice
He practises his stunts while mine rolls fat blunts
And dices the ones and two's
Double K troubling crews
That can't understand the way his hands move
God given gift of being swift on the tables
Try and copy his cuts, you're nuts and not able
The RCA cable can barely transmit it
Stepping using his weapons you're tripping kid forget it
Cause he can keep it on beat tranforming quicker
And serve that ass like a cold glass of hard liquor, the jack tripper
Probably even rocked the regal degal
As Double works the needle like a sweatshop illegal
I've seen him rock a wedding and everybody was sweatin
He did it in the DMC cos don't keep me forgetting
It's not about a routine, but how hard you rock
From touring overseas to guesting parties on the block
He's a one man, comparable to thunder
You see him before you hear him and that's why crews fear him
A big motherfucker controlling the ones and twos
Fat black DJ like them old school grooves.

*Scratching*

[Double K]
Now I can macaroni in the two techniques
Still chilling like Norman Rogers with my hands out speed
I'm never hamster using I'm crossfader cruising
Slip mats and hard liquors be the tools that I'm using
DJ, gather around, check out the way it gets done
I don't need no headphones, they get in my way son
So watch me get busy like a telephone line
Ey yo, it's DJ Double K I said I'm going for mine

[caaflex]

and that difference is nothing bad. indeed, i see it as a progression to use live instead of the "typical dj setup".

zis. i dont know about you guys, but i got into ableton so to move forward from being a DJ, not just so i can be lazy about beat matching. shoot, id rather be behind some decks if im just mixing tracks. its way more fun and hands on then mixing songs in live.

[H20nly]

nothing is going to change or be ultimately decided here on the forum in regards to this. The horse is dead.






People Under the Stairs are the shit though... this much is true.

[AceLuby]

Just to top it off... DJ's aren't 'real musicians' anyway, so who cares?

[davepermen]

Just to top it off... DJ's aren't 'real musicians' anyway, so who cares?

then it has to be double offensive to be accussed of not being a real dj, which isn't a real musician. what is he, then.. (we could introduce now "double negation" to solve the issue )

[dum]

so have you figured out the colour of shit yet ?

[Donnie]

How many sayings and terms nowadays have absolutely nothing to do with the words involved? An endless amount im sure. Someone can argue till they are blue in the face about the words disk & jockey, or what they mean adjacent to each other, but it is completely irrelevant. I could think of a million examples of why a phrase consisting of two words together can completely deviate from their specific meanings, but if someone doesnt get it by now, they likely never will.

[davepermen]

How many sayings and terms nowadays have absolutely nothing to do with the words involved? An endless amount im sure. Someone can argue till they are blue in the face about the words disk & jockey, or what they mean adjacent to each other, but it is completely irrelevant. I could think of a million examples of why a phrase consisting of two words together can completely deviate from their specific meanings, but if someone doesnt get it by now, they likely never will.

i do get it. i simply say it stupid. if we go further that way, liveacts should be called dj, popstars, etc. that deviation is always very weird.

but then again, prime examples could be 'cool', and 'fuck'. in german, a recent one is 'fett'.

still, it was not my main point. my main point was, and remains "someone playing with live on stage does not the same the typical dj of now does". it needs a different skillset, a different setup, different preparation. thus the accusation is very valid.

i got accussed that when using traktor, where, at least, the skillset is identical to the typical vinyl dj (except i'm not capable of carry the amount of tracks i have in vinyl around). still, as i was able to do more than the typical vinyl dj, one can accusse it to be cheating.

the problem is only, the op got offended by it. instead he should feel good about it, and say "yes indeed".

[Pitch Black]

Just to top it off... DJ's aren't 'real musicians' anyway, so who cares?

then it has to be double offensive to be accussed of not being a real dj, which isn't a real musician. what is he, then..

"A DJ who thinks he's a musician is like a milkman who thinks he's a cow."

**ducks**