Help! Unwanted patch change midi messages

[ungakhan]

Can anyone here please help? I am running Ableton Live 6.0.1 via an RME Fireface 400 on a fairly new MacBook Pro (about 18 months old). I use a Korg CX3 and a Kurzweil PC2X and use Ableton mainly to trigger soft synths. I've found recently that while playing either the Korg or the Kurzweil that the patch will suddenly change without warning or reset itself. For obvious reasons this is frustrating. It can happen while playing either keyboard (it happened with a third as well) and has happened using NI software (B4, Electrik Piano, Pro-53). NI insist the problem is somewhere else and it obviously isn't the keyboard. The matter would be sorted if I could only switch off the patch change message from either keyboard but I can't (as far as I can see). Can't see a way of disabling it within Ableton either or on any of the soft synths. Would really appreciate any advice on this.

[carlosjhzapien]

Can anyone here please help? I am running Ableton Live 6.0.1 via an RME Fireface 400 on a fairly new MacBook Pro (about 18 months old). I use a Korg CX3 and a Kurzweil PC2X and use Ableton mainly to trigger soft synths. I've found recently that while playing either the Korg or the Kurzweil that the patch will suddenly change without warning or reset itself. For obvious reasons this is frustrating. It can happen while playing either keyboard (it happened with a third as well) and has happened using NI software (B4, Electrik Piano, Pro-53). NI insist the problem is somewhere else and it obviously isn't the keyboard. The matter would be sorted if I could only switch off the patch change message from either keyboard but I can't (as far as I can see). Can't see a way of disabling it within Ableton either or on any of the soft synths. Would really appreciate any advice on this.

Hmmm this has been happening to me too but since I haven't been able to reproduce it consistently (it happens while I'm in the middle of a song with the whole band playing) I simply go along and with it. It happens when changing Synth patches (Rolan VSynth connected via USB) and also when changing GT8 patches. The GT8 patch changes are a bit more annoying because it won't change the patch rather it will activate the WAH!!!! And I don't know how or why, if I go back and replay the scene where this is done, it simply doesn't do it again. The GT8 is connected via a MIDI cable using the MOTU 128 MIDI adaptor, which is connected via USB to my MacBook Pro (only 6 months old).

Anybody else experienced MIDI "noise" like this?

[tlennon]

I also have experienced intermitent program change messages with a external Motif an Roland D50 (via a card installed on a Roland VariOS). I wonder if there is a systemic issue with Live's Midi message management. Perhaps some testing is needed by Ableton but the problem will be reproducing it. It seems to happen at different times with different conditions.

[arafel]

IMHO -

Use a midi monitor program to determine if your keyboards are sending 'Program Change' messages (CC#1 -?? i think). There can be midi 'noize' from some keyboards/ controllers.

I've used midimonitor (snoize.com) to check midi messages a few times.
I have a Novation Remote25 that has one pot that will send 2 messages if twisted to hard, or pushed a bit... good for random fx, but annoying most of the time.

It can be the keyboard sending erroneous messages.

See if you can disable the Program change function within your plugs, to workaround this, if it is the keyboard.

[tlennon]

@arafel
Certainly worth checking out but I use other DAWs and never have this issue. I will give your suggestion a try though cause you never know. Thanks!

[carlosjhzapien]

IMHO -

Use a midi monitor program to determine if your keyboards are sending 'Program Change' messages (CC#1 -?? i think). There can be midi 'noize' from some keyboards/ controllers.

I've used midimonitor (snoize.com) to check midi messages a few times.
I have a Novation Remote25 that has one pot that will send 2 messages if twisted to hard, or pushed a bit... good for random fx, but annoying most of the time.

It can be the keyboard sending erroneous messages.

See if you can disable the Program change function within your plugs, to workaround this, if it is the keyboard.

I would agree with this if I was making the patch changes with a keyboard then sending them to the synth. In my case I've preprogrammed the patch changes using a MIDI track which all it does is send PCs to a synth (V-Synth XT) or effects processor (GT8 for guitar, Voiceworks for vocals) and Live sometimes seems to be sending a "glitchy" signal that makes the patch change do something I didn't program, like call another patch or add another effect on the effects processor. One time I was expecting a soft-over drive on the guitar for a mellow solo and instead it gave me a Heavy Metal patch I had used 2 songs before. It wasn't a pretty sight, people's eyes started to bleed and a lady tried to jump through the window.

[manumanu]

yes, this happend to me sometimes with Guitar Rig 3 preset.
it just change preset by itself, and i don't play any midi device, just my acoustic guitar.
no idea. i thought it was GR3....

[noise]

this has happened to me recently, but I *believe* that it was an actual physical problem:
I have a Korg M1 as my midi controller kybd. I have a wireless qwerty computer kybd set on top of that.
When I would start a song, I would experience intermittent Pgm chg's to my FabFilter One on several different songs.
Someone later pointed out that maybe I was accidentally triggering these changes because the wireless qwerty computer kybd lay across the M1's number pad...so when I was jumping about and playing, the vibrations were enough for the wireless qwerty computer kybd to press buttons on the M1...
Once I put rubber "bumper pads" on the bottom of the wireless qwerty computer kybd and in places around the number pad on the M1, I experienced no more unwanted Pgm Chg's.
VERY disconcerting problem indeed.
I don't know if this helps anyone.... at any rate- I do hope you get this sorted for yourselves.

...ya know...there may be some way to use 3rd party midi plugs to filter the midi messages that are being sent to your devices? I've not had much experience with this, but I think there may be some things out there that may do that?
http://www.midiplugins.com/
or more specifically:
http://asseca.com/nicfit/midifilter.html

hope this helps-