Can Someone Explain Swing For Me?

tone4407 · Post by **tone4407** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:50 am

I half understand the Swing function in Live, but could someone clarify it for me and help me understand it better?

Thanks.

tone4407 · Post by **tone4407** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:10 am

C'mon now, I know 1 out of the 64 people that viewed this thread can give me a good explanation of swing. Don't hold out, let me know what its about.

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:21 am

Swing is one of those things that i just do not know how to explain in text.
it has to do with hesitation and light syncopation in a rhythmic context. Its something i learned when i was a child so i can't really remember how it was explained to me, that makes it difficult for me to explain to you (i'm sure some of the other 63 people are in the same boat)

i mean there's an entire genre of music called "Swing", do you hear how notes and rhythms are hesitated in Swing music?

Do this,
start a new .als
In Impulse take a drumkit with a hihat or ride cymbal sound.
Like the Studio Montreal preset that comes in Live, the "Open" hat sound will do....

Put the notes for that sound here, in a 1 bar midi clip, looped...
1,3,4,5, 7,8,9, 11,12,13, 15,16
Now, set your midi clip's Groove to Swing 16.
This is 16th note Swing.

Now to hear the swing you will have to increase the global groove in Live.
Its in the top left section of your screen, between your time signature (4/4) and your metronome. By default it is "0". play back the midi clip at that setting. listen to the rhythm for a few bars. Now, set the global groove amount to 75... play back the sequence.
Hear THAT? thats swing baby! Listen to how some notes are hesitated and some are pushed or nudged.

now slap on some kicks and snares... and i'll bust out my Clarinet.

you can thank benny goodman for that shit

iskandar · Post by **iskandar** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:26 am

it will slightly delay some midi notes to make it feel more humanised.

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:29 am

Swing as in the timing feel?

I don't know of any Swing function in Live3....

It's actually hard to define cause the timing moves around depending on
the player and groove.

um..... geez a music font would come in handy now....

bah no examples I can find on google.....

The basic primary school definition is....

Dotted Quaver -> Semi-Quaver
1/8 + 1/16 -> 1/16

However this is like a gallop.

It's more like....

3x 1/16 triplets with the first 2 tied.

1/3 + 1/3 -> 1/3

Which is more of a swing feel....2/3 to 1/3 vrs 3/4 to 1/4 with the quavers.

Now I'm 100% sure this has nothing to do with what u'r asking....
so maybe explain more or check the manual.

-Ben

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:30 am

oh another simple explaination.....

Notes on the beat are held slightly longer then notes off the beat.

-Ben

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:33 am

MrYellow wrote: I don't know of any Swing function in Live3....

you gotta get live 4 ben!
the swing function was my favorite thing during the beta test last summer. Being able to take tracks with little or no swing, warping them, and SWINGING them! ahhh i loved it, still do!

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:38 am

I didn't use Live for a year or 2 cause I was busy working....
So I bought it and it sat on the self.

I asked Ableton if they'd slip me in under recent purchase discounted
updated plan. They were completely solid without any room to move.

So....

Screw em.... They had the choice of $50 or $0 and they chose $0.

I'll wait for Live5 or 6 now.....
Not my problem if Ableton don't want my money.

-Ben

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:43 am

sorry to hear that man.
ah well if you're content with Live for at least another 6 months... you'll be getting a huge bump for $89 or so downloadable with Live 5 i'm sure.
Every single update has been jawdropping for me.

tone4407 · Post by **tone4407** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 10:04 am

Ahh, that helps alot. Thanks guys. So, how does the global groove amount affect the swing? Does the higher groove amount mean more swing...more off the beat?

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:42 am

Yeah, you got it.

Another way to think of swing is it's just the delaying of every second 16th note by a tiny fraction.

If you imagine a "straight" beat the 16ths will all be EQUALLY spaced. So you can say (bare with me here) that:

[16th note] <50% distance> [16th note] <50% distance> [16th note]

With a swung beat, every second 16th is dalayed so a little bit of swing looks like:

[16th note] <51% distance> [16th note] <49% distance> [16th note]

or a REALLY swingy beat looks like:

[16th note] <60% distance> [16th note]<40% distance>[16th note]

HTH

tone4407 · Post by **tone4407** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:37 am

So whats the difference between straight, 1/8th, 1/16th, etc. on the groove function?

If I adjust the global groove amount on a straight groove, lets say move it to 75%, will that do anything?

bigbone · Post by **bigbone** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:48 pm

Don't want to be sarcastic...but swing got to do with music, and if you don't know
what swing is , how can you do music :

it's basic..........

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:06 pm

Usually each beat is slice into groups of two (theoretically - this is without "feel" in the equation), as in 1-and-2-and with all the spaces being of equal length.

Swing is moving the 'and' more towards the next beat. Sometimes enough to suggest that each beat is actually sliced in three - 1-da-and-2-da-and etc - even if you still only play two of them.

-Paws

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:15 pm

tone4407 wrote:So whats the difference between straight, 1/8th, 1/16th, etc. on the groove function?

If I adjust the global groove amount on a straight groove, lets say move it to 75%, will that do anything?

These clip settings relate to what note value Live will use to delay every alternate one. ie 1/8 will delay every second eighth note, 1/16 will delay every 16th note (as per my post above)

But straight will force the clip to stay un-swung, even when you adjust the global swing value.