is using loop cds and presets cheating?

revA · Post by **revA** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:15 pm

hi there

the folling may seem like a joke, but these are my serious thoughts:

when i listen to some of the preproduced loop-cds out there and some sample/soundssets you can buy for your synths, there is something i ask myself: if i would make all my sounds by myself and produce all my loops they would never sound as fat und up to date compared to the commercial available sounds, so far so good. but is it cheating if i use the good soundíng loops and sounds in my production, to make them sound more fat and awesome as they would otherwise be, if i did all by myself?
i'm not talking about using loops from construction kits and just using those without any change.
the thing is: i really suck at making drumsounds and programming beats, so if i have a track using my own selfmade drumsounds and beats and compare it to the same track but with some really good produced loops added for sonic flavour, the later sounds soo much better, than what i could on my own.
in this case i'm asking myself, if using these sounds: is it just cheap cheating to make my tracks sounds better and to hide my bad production skills?
or is it that i am just a bit too overconscious about making music? (i have a tendency to be that in other contexts)

looking forward to some enlightening answers!

ChiDJ · Post by **ChiDJ** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:11 pm

No. Just make them your own.

beats me · Post by **beats me** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:58 pm

Not using loops in Electronica is like not using steroids in professional sports. It can be done but you're going to get your ass kicked and you're not going to break any records.

macmurphy · Post by **macmurphy** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:56 am

It's not cheating as long as you don't rely entirely on loops, imo. With presets, well i've rarely if ever found one that fits comfortably into a track without tweaking and then you've kind of made it your own, haven't you? Maybe you are being over concious of the process - it's the results that count

dum · Post by **dum** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:59 am

Got AIDS ?

macmurphy · Post by **macmurphy** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 6:08 am

What?

dum · Post by **dum** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 6:23 am

timothyallan · Post by **timothyallan** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:47 am

If all you can do is string other peoples loops and presets together, it's a bit like Guitar Hero meets Live. Sure it sounds good, and you'll trick your friends, but you'll never build up any real talent doing it.

dhilsabeck · Post by **dhilsabeck** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:22 am

^^^
Isn't that an art form in itself? The collage?

Personally I couldn't give two shits as long as the final product is good.

timothyallan · Post by **timothyallan** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:37 am

Is an artform something that anyone can do? My wife can lay down a few vengeance loops and make a dance track. If you're happy with it, than that's all that really matters though. However, you'll be out of luck when someone asks for something original

dhilsabeck · Post by **dhilsabeck** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:57 am

Originality is subjective though. I'm sure we've all heard some "original" material, devoid of any presets/loops that sounds utterly boring in it's execution. However, there are some people who can take loops and presets and concoct something rather amazing and original. I guess it depends on the chef.

And yes, I believe anyone can contribute to an artform. People can obsess over using super special vsts and sidechain compression to achieve the perfect, original kick drum. And then there are those who can whip together something on their first try that blows that away because they simply have better judgement and better taste. This is increasingly easier with presets and loops. Less science, more creativity.

But then again, quality music is highly subjective so I guess there is no right answer. Like you said, as long as you're happy with it...

3phase · Post by **3phase** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:55 pm

cheating? no ..its rather like taking lessons in techno dancing..

outershpongolia · Post by **outershpongolia** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:11 pm

macmurphy wrote:It's not cheating as long as you don't rely entirely on loops, imo. With presets, well i've rarely if ever found one that fits comfortably into a track without tweaking and then you've kind of made it your own, haven't you? Maybe you are being over concious of the process - it's the results that count

That's how I feel too.. Take a synth preset and mess with it until it sounds right, might be a subtle change, might be a completely different sound, either way if you can be creative with it then who cares at that point, you're creating something fresh, that's what you want to do, right?

and as far as loops go, when it comes to drum loops, you might find some fat fresh sounding beat but it's only like 2 or 4 bars, drag it into arrangement view, slice out parts, rearrange them, add some triplet fills to it, make fills by utilizing copy/paste/duplicate/cut then layer some effects or whatever you want and all that stuff until you've got yourself 16/32/64 bar pattern with variation and it will sound a lot more fun than the 2 bar loop playing back to back.

While you're at it, take a second beat and slice that one into the first beat, that's a nice way to make the beats glitchy and interesting..

macmurphy · Post by **macmurphy** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:27 pm

You don't have to grow your own tomatoes to make tomato soup. What you do (or don't do) with the ingredients will make your soup nice and satisfying or plain and bland like any old canned supermarket fodder.

Or something.

outershpongolia · Post by **outershpongolia** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 6:36 pm

you say tomato, i say tomato..

doesn't work on paper..