How do you know when to stop?

[trikster_b]

Full title is: How do you know when to stop working on a track, specifically when you're past the (amateur) mastering stage and are ready to put it on a site like Soundcloud?

I've finally finished a track that I'm really happy with; designed all the sounds, mixed it well (at least I hope so), put a limiter on the drum track, and did a little amateur mastering on the master track with compression and EQ.

Here is the waveform of the finished track (also increased 6 dB; gonna have to fix it later):

click for big

Now my problem is that I can't stop worrying about all the little peaks across the song. Granted, it's zoomed out so that makes the peaks stand out more and they seem to be a consistent volume but still. I did a test by putting in songs from other artist across a wide variety of genres and the majority of them do look like this so I don't know why I'm obsessing over this. The most important thing is that I have listened to it and it does sound great to me, but I am biased and used to how it sounds.

So I guess my question is: am I worrying too much about how the waveform looks? Should I just trust my ears and not worry about it? Or is there an obvious problem with it and I should take the time to fix those problems? Basically, how do you know when to stop working on a track?

[H20nly]

you said... "how the waveform looks"



we are talking about music right?

what did they do 15 years ago?

20?

30? - "waveform" - "what are ya some kind of surfer or something"

its okay to be anal about your music... just do it with your ears.

[LeifonMars]

Not sure what your problem is, but here's http://www.solid-state-logic.com/music/X-ISM/index.asp a plugin that can solve 'em. It's free.

[markmakingmusic]

This is the eternal question: when am I done worrying about this song!!??!?!!...A couple of things: Keep in mind that compression is used WAY too much these days and people assume that you have to squash the hell out of your song in order for it to sound good. Somehow it is now some sort of industry standard to have no dynamic range. Well I personally would rather hear some dynamic range when I listen to music. Ultimately, you are right, TRUST YOUR EARS first and foremost. Forget about how the waveform looks. Peaks are fine (as long as they don't clip and/or sound like garbage!).

Send the track to some friends or people you trust or make it available to people you don't know. Ask their opinion as well. Try to get a feel for how a classical music listener will react to it as well as a metal head or an electronic guru. Your ears should always make the final decision, not your eyeballs. Just remember: What would Stevie Wonder do? Good luck!

[beats me]

It's usually best to stop shortly after she tells you it's starting to hurt.

[Tarekith]

Take week away, come back to it with fresh ears before you post online and you'll be surprised at how much you change. Or not

[H20nly]

Take week away, come back to it with fresh ears before you post online and you'll be surprised at how much you change. Or not

+1

I actually like my music sometimes after having walked away from a track for a week or two.
It lets me listen to the track instead of that one _______________. <--insert random element


FWIW your wave form is very nice.

[trikster_b]

you said... "how the waveform looks"



we are talking about music right?

what did they do 15 years ago?

20?

30? - "waveform" - "what are ya some kind of surfer or something"

its okay to be anal about your music... just do it with your ears.

I agree, except the reason I'm so obsessive over this is that my ears are terrible; 80% hearing in my right ear and around 60% in my left, so what may be one slightly loud peak for me may actually be a super loud peak that completely ruins that part of the song. The only way I can personally be truly sure is to look at it and see that it's all nice and uniform.

Also, yes, this kind of thing did not happen 30 years ago, but things change over time, and digital is a different beast than some tape reel 30 years ago. Believe me, I hate arguments about some tiny thing that ultimately doesn't matter just as much as anyone else.

This is the eternal question: when am I done worrying about this song!!??!?!!...A couple of things: Keep in mind that compression is used WAY too much these days and people assume that you have to squash the hell out of your song in order for it to sound good. Somehow it is now some sort of industry standard to have no dynamic range. Well I personally would rather hear some dynamic range when I listen to music. Ultimately, you are right, TRUST YOUR EARS first and foremost. Forget about how the waveform looks. Peaks are fine (as long as they don't clip and/or sound like garbage!).

Send the track to some friends or people you trust or make it available to people you don't know. Ask their opinion as well. Try to get a feel for how a classical music listener will react to it as well as a metal head or an electronic guru. Your ears should always make the final decision, not your eyeballs. Just remember: What would Stevie Wonder do? Good luck!

Yeah, I looked at a couple songs from other artists and some of them were just squashed to hell, and I've always tried to leave at least -6dB of headroom before doing amateur mastering. This is good advice, thanks!

Take week away, come back to it with fresh ears before you post online and you'll be surprised at how much you change. Or not

Good idea. I'll start doing this whenever I finish a track.

And thanks H20nly. I'm glad it at least looks nice; I think it sounds nice, I just hope there's no hidden problems in it that I can't hear...

[flippo]

I think when you're getting very loud peaks, yet nothing seems to be sticking too far out of the mix to your ears, it's usually that there are some frequencies stacking on top of each other.

maybe find out what frequency the peaks are, and what instruments they coincide with.

Say it happens with your snare and the bulk of it is around 1.5k, you might be able to knock a bit of 1.5k out of a synth or something to give it a little more headroom underneath it, thus bringing down the overall peak. OR visa-versa to taste perhaps?


And yes, nothing wrong with dynamics if it still sounds good

[H20nly]

fair enough...

sorry about your sonic ailment... on the bright side, what would Beethoven have given to have the workaround you have now?

I could be mistaken, as I'm no mastering engineer, but I think a limiter could be a good weapon for you.

[The Empireal Formula]

Short and sweet:

Always rely on your ears and not your eyes.

you said yourself it sounds fine. Don't worry too much about the waveforms just as long as they don't have buzzcuts, then that would mean your audio is clipping or clipping too much, and therefore it would sound nasty. (but im sure you would of noticed that)

i used to be like you, i would worry about the engineering in my tracks. But a very important thing i learned on the way is. "Its however you want it to sound...... there's no rules"

of course to a certain extent that is..... but u get the hint.

good luck,
now start makin some music!

[Pitch Black]

The Optimist:
"A painting is never finished - it just stops in interesting places."

The Pessimist:
"Art is never finished - it is merely abandoned."

[trikster_b]

fair enough...

sorry about your sonic ailment... on the bright side, what would Beethoven have given to have the workaround you have now?

I could be mistaken, as I'm no mastering engineer, but I think a limiter could be a good weapon for you.

It's alright; it's never been a real big problem for me, it just makes me wonder how much audio I'm really missing.

I did actually buy a limiter the other day as part of the audiomidi no brainer deal; the Crysonic SpectraPhy LE which worked really well on the drum track. (not to mention the nXtasy tube saturation and the amazing Sindo which I got for free; thing is amazing as hell)

I think when you're getting very loud peaks, yet nothing seems to be sticking too far out of the mix to your ears, it's usually that there are some frequencies stacking on top of each other.

maybe find out what frequency the peaks are, and what instruments they coincide with.

Say it happens with your snare and the bulk of it is around 1.5k, you might be able to knock a bit of 1.5k out of a synth or something to give it a little more headroom underneath it, thus bringing down the overall peak. OR visa-versa to taste perhaps?


And yes, nothing wrong with dynamics if it still sounds good

Didn't know about the frequency stacking; something I'll have to check for. And I agree about dynamics; I'm trying my hardest to make it sound exciting.

Short and sweet:

Always rely on your ears and not your eyes.

you said yourself it sounds fine. Don't worry too much about the waveforms just as long as they don't have buzzcuts, then that would mean your audio is clipping or clipping too much, and therefore it would sound nasty. (but im sure you would of noticed that)

i used to be like you, i would worry about the engineering in my tracks. But a very important thing i learned on the way is. "Its however you want it to sound...... there's no rules"

of course to a certain extent that is..... but u get the hint.

good luck,
now start makin some music!

Yeah, I read early on in my production "career" about clipping, so I've always made sure not to have any. What I'm getting from this thread is that all you really need to check for on a waveform is for clipping, and I've been doing that all along, so sounds like I've been worrying about nothing. I think I'll take your advice and start making some music now. Thanks for the advice all!

[auditory canvas]

Looking at that image it just looks like your track has maintained a good level of dynamics. The reason some tracks waveforms look 'even' is that they've had the shit compressed and limited out of them, so that it all just hits the brick wall at 0db - basically competing in the loudness war. Dynamics are good, don't worry about what other's are doing, especially commerical, big name, tracks, if it sounds right it is right. If you're concenred then get other people to listen to it and give you feedback.