Consolidation & normalising Question - Could be profound?

[3dot...]

select the length and hit "render "

then..
rendered track :
ALL TRACKS instead of 'master'..or pick the ones you want to export..
Normalize : OFF

..done.

I seriously see nothing wrong with this method..

[sdmiddleton]

select the length and hit "render "

then..
rendered track :
ALL TRACKS instead of 'master'..or pick the ones you want to export..
Normalize : OFF

..done.

I seriously see nothing wrong with this method..

That is definitely a quick-er way of doing it, but its still extra work. For one, the rendered files take on the name of the track they’re recorded in. So they get added to a list of files with ‘audio file 1-1’ or ‘audio file 1-2’ etc at the end of them and when you’ve already got countless audio files in a whole list, including some that have been deleted from the project I’d personally have to go through them all and make sure I’m selecting the correct file. But also, you need to make sure that each track has its effects off and that the tracks are all activated before rendering, and if you’ve missed one of the tracks off, bearing in mind this process will usually be done at the end of a tiring recording process, last thing you need is to sift through files with slightly different names with added numbers at the end of them and make sure they’ve all been processed correctly.

But more of a constructive point for future, Consolidation is almost an excellently flexible feature, but if you could turn off normalisation it would be perfect. That said, if you stay in Ableton, then sure its great – but the minute you work with others, or use Ableton as a serious tool for potential clients, this could be a real pitfall.

[locojohn]

select the length and hit "render "

then..
rendered track :
ALL TRACKS instead of 'master'..or pick the ones you want to export..
Normalize : OFF

..done.

I seriously see nothing wrong with this method..

That is definitely a quick-er way of doing it, but its still extra work.

But more of a constructive point for future, Consolidation is almost an excellently flexible feature, but if you could turn off normalisation it would be perfect. That said, if you stay in Ableton, then sure its great – but the minute you work with others, or use Ableton as a serious tool for potential clients, this could be a real pitfall.

I absolutely agree with sdmiddleton. Consolidation is a "one click" internal option, while rendering to disk opens a dialog where you must practically always change the settings because they differe from Export to disk settings for the whole song, and then you must locate to find the file you just rendered and load it back etc. etc.. No way!

Andrejs

[3dot...]

yeah.. not saying it's not important.. just that it's no deal breaker..
it's not like it can't be done... it's just 1-2 more steps..
in a full working day it will save you about 10 minutes (at best)..

but I understand what you're saying..
I miss some features too and work with 'reaper' and 'samplitude' for jobs where I need batch processing or event-based processing ..
this is because I know the limitations and strong-sides of each one of my tools..
these actions could be done in Live .. but are much easier quicker with other DAW..


this lack of feature shouldn't prevent you from making music..is all I'm saying..

constant crashing.. now .. that's a different deal altogether

[locojohn]

naah bro. normalizing then reducing clip gain is 100% neutral. try it yourself, results in identical audio regardless of how quiet the orig file is. of course normalizing will increase any noise present along with signal but turning the gain back down will return it to how it was and wont magically fuck up your audio. longstanding audio myth.



.lm.

Nice mix on soundcloud brother, but you are wrong. This operation is not neutral!

To demonstrate this, download the Consolidation-Normalization-demo.alp project that I've created specifically to demonstrate this.

In the first part of the arrangement view Track 1 and Track 2 contain identical audio tracks that cancel each other out on Master by utilizing the Utility (invert phase for track 2) so we neither see anything in the spectrum analyzer, nor hear anything.

In the second part of the arrangement, Track 2 audio is consolidated. See and hear the results by yourself:



Andrejs

[locojohn]

this lack of feature shouldn't prevent you from making music..is all I'm saying..

We're not talking about what prevents us from making music though. We're talking about inconveniences, which become a serious problem if you need to consolidate or render mixed audio >100 times a day.

Andrejs

[3dot...]

did the same test and it cancells over here...
btw...
do you realize how much you've amped to get that signal ?!

no matter I did the same...

here's the screen :

[locojohn]

did the same test and it cancells over here..

I don't know what samples you used and in what kind of configuration, but with my demo project that everyone can open and check I only wanted to show that consolidation is _destructive_. I work with quiet samples a lot because I compose ambient music so it is of concern to me. I've added these massive amounts of gain on purpose, of course.

And of course what we're discussing is not a show stopper either, as you say, because the difference becomes only audible if you add a lot of gain to the signal and thus raise the noise floor substantially! Yet, consolidating audio IS destructive, as opposed to what leisuremuffin declared.

Andrejs

[3dot...]

.. somehow I knew you'd say that... hehe.. no trust in this world I tells ya

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/639447/TEST%20Project.zip

[locojohn]

.. somehow I knew you'd say that... hehe.. no trust in this world I tells ya

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/639447/TEST%20Project.zip

Well, don't you see the difference? Track 1 + 2 = perfect silence. Track 1 + 3 = signal on master:



And, BTW, you can remove all gain devices from your set. The result is still audible.

Andrejs

[3dot...]

dude... this doesn't happen here... didn't you see my screen ?

I think I spot a bug or sumfin

[leisuremuffin]

cancels 100% here whenever i try it as well. haven't used either of your tests but i've done it my own. i don't think i need to upload a file that would take anyone about 2 minutes to investigate on their own.


.lm.

[Tarekith]

You guys aren't using the same Warp Modes I think

[leisuremuffin]

*sigh*


.lm.

[locojohn]

You guys aren't using the same Warp Modes I think

Although I forgot that consolidation makes a non-warped series of clips a warped clip, after switching off warp mode the differences are still there and inverting phase does not fully neglect the audio. I still stick to my opinion.

Andrejs